Tap Water Killing Bacteria?

[chrisbassist]

I'm getting to grips with most of this, but I'm not the kind of person to just accept something as being true. I like to understand WHY it's true. So on that note:

everyone agrees that rinsing your filter in tap water is wrong and will kill the bacteria.

If this is true, how do we get any bacteria to start with. I thought we were relying on the tap water to have some in? But if the water kills the bacteria, then it wouldn't and so there would be nothing to grow into the amount we need.

I suppose the other alternative is the possibility of some bacteria being airborne making it's way to the tank...

Please help me understand

 

[Twinklecaz]

Ooo good point. I'm listening too!

 

[chrisbassist]

Or possibly bacteria morphing to make use of supplied food? From bacteria which would have previously fed on chlorine? Meaning it will morph back into a chlorine eater because it's plentiful, meaning we see a spike in ammonia because it takes time to go back to ammonia?

 

[kaivalagi]

Good call on that one...I would think it has to be airborne as chlorine kills it...I'm all ears

 

[Curiosity101]

I don't know the science behind it but it's not that far fetched to conclude that some bacteria are capable of surviving the conditions in our water pipes. But that most aren't, and that even the decendants from the first bacteria could loose the ability to survive in tap water.
Afterall once you remove all the nasty chemicals etc with water conditioner then there is no selection pressure towards those that can survive in it. So if you wash in tap water then you could severely diminish the numbers of bacteria, or it could be the chemicals cause them to break down the biofilm...like I said, I don't know the real answer but thats all feasible.

Plus there is the fact that if you're doing regular changes anyways then it really isn't a big stretch to rinse the pads in it just to be on the safe side.

 

[chrisbassist]

That's a good possibility.

But the note on rinsing in water from the change isn't the point, no one struggles with it, I'm just trying to understand. I have a thirst for knowledge. And there is so much to learn everywhere.

 

[Curiosity101]

But the note on rinsing in water from the change isn't the point, no one struggles with it, I'm just trying to understand. I have a thirst for knowledge. And there is so much to learn everywhere.

Fair point. I do tend to waffle lol.

But yeah my guess is the following (to sum up) this is presuming the bacteria comes in the water supply

• The chemicals in the tap water either inhibit the growth/kill most of the bacteria. Once in the tank and away from chemicals (and when given a food source), they replicate and over the generations some of the resiliane to the tap water chemicals is lost but it doesn't matter cause they aren't exposed to it anymore. However when dipped in tap water they are killed by the chemicals

• The chemicals in the water cause the biofilm to degrade leaving many of the bacteria unprotected and causes huge die back

• The huge change in water parameters causes something like osmotic or toxic shock

 

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

Going at it from a different angle could it be something as simple as if you are washing it out with tank water it's probably in a bucket or something, so there is bacteria in the bucket water so even washing it doesn't get it "clean" there is still enough bacteria left over, where as if you are washing it in water chances are it's under a tap and any bacteria that falls off will go down the drain (i.e. you get it 'cleaner').

 

[Truck]

The washing media in sponges thing is an argument that stands no grounds in my opinion, it will kill some bacteria not all, some is the key word, the amount of chlorine in tap water is only big enough to cope with small colonies of bacteria, our filters hold massive colonies, and the chlorine in tap water (normally 3PPM) will only knock the population, it wont wipe it out.

I've not used dechlorinator for some time now and I have had no adverse effects whatsoever.

With regards to why there is still bacteria in the water; With chlorine only being at approximately 3ppm, it is at a very low concentration, for every 3 molecules of chlorine there are 1,000,000 molecules of water, and the bacteria has to come into contact with the chlorine for it to be affected, and the chances of every single molecule finding a chlorine molecule is very slim, hence why some of them survive.

 

[Joe97]

ooh.... I've never asked that question before. Interesting

 

[Tolak]

The washing media in sponges thing is an argument that stands no grounds in my opinion, it will kill some bacteria not all, some is the key word, the amount of chlorine in tap water is only big enough to cope with small colonies of bacteria, our filters hold massive colonies, and the chlorine in tap water (normally 3PPM) will only knock the population, it wont wipe it out.

I've not used dechlorinator for some time now and I have had no adverse effects whatsoever.

With regards to why there is still bacteria in the water; With chlorine only being at approximately 3ppm, it is at a very low concentration, for every 3 molecules of chlorine there are 1,000,000 molecules of water, and the bacteria has to come into contact with the chlorine for it to be affected, and the chances of every single molecule finding a chlorine molecule is very slim, hence why some of them survive.

I agree with this, and know many aquarists who rinse the media in tap water with no ill effect, as well as do water changes with untreated water. If tap water was that effective at killing bacteria there would be no need to sterilize equipment with a solution of 1 part bleach to 20 parts water.

Not rinsing filter media in tap water is generally something told to newer aquarists, with newly cycled tanks and little experience to keep them out of trouble. The more fragile newly grown colony of nitrifying bacteria will be more easily affected by the disinfectants in tap water.

 

[chrisbassist]

Ok. I think I get it.
It's another form of what I call lies to children. Where you tell people something which while not strictly 100% correct, will guide in the right direction, to prevent too many mistakes aalong the way.

Classic example is science, first you're told there is nothing smaller than a molecule, then you're told more, that those are made of even smaller things called atoms at that they're the smallest thing, then you get told that actually they're made of neutrons and protons etc, and that they are the smallest thing, then you study further and suddenly there's things called quasars and stuff... Lies, but lies to help you digest info at an understandable level.

 

[OldMan47]

The real facts are, as always, something that you might find a bit confusing. Your water company is adding chlorine or chloramine or even ozone in some systems in trace amounts to make the water safe for you to drink. That means that the live bacteria arriving at your home are low enough in number that you will not become sick simply by drinking the water. It does not mean that the water supply is sterile. In fact, the concentrations of chlorine required top produce a sterile water supply are far too high for people to tolerate them. So where does that leave us? Our tap water has enough chlorine in it in one form or another to kill most bacteria if the contact time is long enough. Contact time is the time that the chlorine concentration and bacteria are in the same water. We do indeed start our tanks by using the few bacteria that survive that chlorination and nourishing the colony back to health in our tanks. If you use chlorinated water to clean the filter, we are back to the original equation. Is the contact time between the chlorine in tap water and the bacterial colony ion the filter you are cleaning long enough to almost completely kill off your filter bacteria? In many cases, people have observed that a mature filter will survive a cleaning in tap water and keep right on working. The contact time that those people used was very short and the colonies recovered quite well. In other circumstances, people lose almost all of the bacteria from their cycled filters by cleaning with tap water. Much of the difference is probably related to two factors. First is the residual chlorine in the water when it arrives at your home, much of it was lost in the water system by killing bacteria. Second is the time required. If I clean my filter in 10 minutes and have it back in tank water while you spend a half hour letting the filter soak before cleaning it, we may well expect different results in terms of chlorine toxicity to the bacteria.

 

[raptorrex]

I gota both, agree and disagree with Truck and Tolak.

the affect of chlorine on our tanks is, overstated. i spent a couple of years, not using dechlorinator/conditioner. i saw no ill effects. however i did my best to remove, mechanically, as much as i could, prior to adding it to the tank. not for fear of its effects, rather because it is so easy. just make the water, going into the change bucket/tub, spray. you will smell the chlorine being gassed off. I ended up going back to dechlorinaror/conditioner, because of copper fears (old water system).

i disagree that the effects of tap water, on media (mature or not) is insignificant. you are already loosing a fair bit, in the clean. to add a further few % (however small), when the tank water is ready to use. and totally safe. to me, makes no sense. well, as advice. people are, of course, able to do as the please.

as for the OP's question. current thinking, well on this forum, is the water is the main source of bacteria. but bacteria, of this type. are in the environment, everywhere. i use a hand full of, good garden soil, as an additive to a new cycle.
bacteria are crafty critters. they can be from a general group, but very specialised. the fast life cycle. means that they can adapt, to differing environments, so its up in the air just what (specific) bacteria, will colonise your filter. not that it makes a difference. the best one will always be, the one you have.( by deffinition, as they evolve/adapt)

 

[Tolak]

I was thinking about the evolve/adapt thing, in that the bacteria in our tanks have done just that in the water distribution system. They have evolved to having the ability to split the ammonia from chloramine, and use this as nitrifying bacteria do. This causes a problem for water companies, in that they need to add more chloramine to counter this, but in effect are adding more food for the nitrifying bacteria.

It has been documented that the nitrifying bacteria in a mature colony is capable of doubling in 24 hours. If you kill off half the bacteria using chlorinated water to clean your media you may not encounter any problems at all due to this. Back onto evolution & adaptation, if you do this long enough & often enough, the bacteria may well adapt to this, evolving to a strain that is capable of being less affected by this, and able to recover from it easier.