Tap Water Killing Bacteria?

The real facts are, as always, something that you might find a bit confusing. Your water company is adding chlorine or chloramine or even ozone in some systems in trace amounts to make the water safe for you to drink. That means that the live bacteria arriving at your home are low enough in number that you will not become sick simply by drinking the water. It does not mean that the water supply is sterile. In fact, the concentrations of chlorine required top produce a sterile water supply are far too high for people to tolerate them. So where does that leave us? Our tap water has enough chlorine in it in one form or another to kill most bacteria if the contact time is long enough. Contact time is the time that the chlorine concentration and bacteria are in the same water. We do indeed start our tanks by using the few bacteria that survive that chlorination and nourishing the colony back to health in our tanks. If you use chlorinated water to clean the filter, we are back to the original equation. Is the contact time between the chlorine in tap water and the bacterial colony ion the filter you are cleaning long enough to almost completely kill off your filter bacteria? In many cases, people have observed that a mature filter will survive a cleaning in tap water and keep right on working. The contact time that those people used was very short and the colonies recovered quite well. In other circumstances, people lose almost all of the bacteria from their cycled filters by cleaning with tap water. Much of the difference is probably related to two factors. First is the residual chlorine in the water when it arrives at your home, much of it was lost in the water system by killing bacteria. Second is the time required. If I clean my filter in 10 minutes and have it back in tank water while you spend a half hour letting the filter soak before cleaning it, we may well expect different results in terms of chlorine toxicity to the bacteria.


I agree. In my mind, Is always wise to clean the filter material in dechlorinated water or old water that we remove from the aquarium.
Many filters on smaller tanks only hold perhaps one cartridge,sponge etc. Is possible in this case to destroy significant portion of bacteria by subjecting the relatively small,or perhaps newly formed bacterial colony to that chemical which is used for that very purpose or,,,by removing and replacing same.
Many filters are designed to enhance bacterial development through use of compartments to hold extra mechanical and bioloical media and or biowheels and as such,,cleaning a portion of material in these filters with tapwater,, might not have as detrimental effect.
In heavily stocked tanks,losing even a small portion of bacterial colony could have greater effect than on moderately stocked tank until bacterial colony once again replenishes itself or at least that is my view.
Makes no sense to me to expieriment or ponder, to what degree or at what rate fish will be affected by amount of bacteria lost from exposure to that designed to kill it.Opinions vary.
 
The fact that opinions vary, to me at least is a good reason to experiment.

We are talking about something we require in our tanks, something that allows us to have the hobby we do. And yet it is also something we know very little about.

Ok, you don't want to risk the health of fish when you experiment, but the issue here seems not to be that washing in tapwater will kill the bacteria, but that it will probably kill some.

For me, when you add in the word probably, and the word some, it casts doubt, tells me we don't know what we're doing.
 
I've not used dechlorinator for some time now and I have had no adverse effects whatsoever.

I've never used it before and I've had a really low mortality rate.

I agree with this, and know many aquarists who rinse the media in tap water with no ill effect, as well as do water changes with untreated water. If tap water was that effective at killing bacteria there would be no need to sterilize equipment with a solution of 1 part bleach to 20 parts water.

Not rinsing filter media in tap water is generally something told to newer aquarists, with newly cycled tanks and little experience to keep them out of trouble. The more fragile newly grown colony of nitrifying bacteria will be more easily affected by the disinfectants in tap water.

Good point.


Ok. I think I get it.
It's another form of what I call lies to children. Where you tell people something which while not strictly 100% correct, will guide in the right direction, to prevent too many mistakes aalong the way.

Classic example is science, first you're told there is nothing smaller than a molecule, then you're told more, that those are made of even smaller things called atoms at that they're the smallest thing, then you get told that actually they're made of neutrons and protons etc, and that they are the smallest thing, then you study further and suddenly there's things called quasars and stuff... Lies, but lies to help you digest info at an understandable level.


Ha I did physics at university and you sharp learn that all through school you are lied too and things don't work how you were told they do. Turns out molecules are pretty big in the grand scale of things. I've had this question in a few crosswords (me and my friend were doing a crossword in the union and had spent our morning measuring light in nano-meters) the crossword question was..."4 letters, name a small unit of measurement" - the answer is "inch". Ok being 'geeks' we objected lol as an inch is in reality pretty #40## big.
 
Personally, I wouldn't wash media in tap water. Using non-dechlorinated water for water changes is another matter- you've got lots of agitation while adding it to the tank to help gas off chlorine, and unless you're doing a mahoosive water change, you're also further diluting it in 'safe' water. Washing media is more 'harsh', and besides which, it's not like using tap water is of any benefit, unless it's mechanical media (which isn't intended to house bacteria anyway), or it's so rank that nothing short of a complete nuke under full blast cold tap will shift the dirt, which isn't that likely, and TBH is just like buying new media.
 
The fact that opinions vary, to me at least is a good reason to experiment.

We are talking about something we require in our tanks, something that allows us to have the hobby we do. And yet it is also something we know very little about.

Ok, you don't want to risk the health of fish when you experiment, but the issue here seems not to be that washing in tapwater will kill the bacteria, but that it will probably kill some.

For me, when you add in the word probably, and the word some, it casts doubt, tells me we don't know what we're doing.



Don't know if it so much that we don't know what we are doing as it is that there are so many variables that seem to affect the growth rate of bacteria. pH,Temp,oxygen, etc. In different water conditions or aquariums,I believe development could be at a slower rate than others. Makes sense to me to protect what we can.
As for dechlorinators, if chlorine was all my source water contained, then I probably wouldn't need to use it. I could simply store the water for water changes for 24 to 48 hours and the chlorine would dissipate(off gas). Maybe even quicker if aerated. Chloramines however are another story. Would always recommend a dechlorinator such as PRIME , or AMQUEL + These will detoxify the ammonia in chloramines, not all conditioners do so.Is I believe especially important in Cyling tanks that hold fish,or tanks that are are absent of live plants.
It is unclear to me how fast mature filter can process the ammonia from chloramines and I would feel safer using the afore mentioned water conditioners with my particular tanks and fish. Some water conditioners along with carbon, can also minimize harmful effects of metals that may also be present in source water.
I do what I feel works for me and I take comfort that many others with much more expierience ,do likewise. Must be some merit.
 
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Ok. I think I get it.
It's another form of what I call lies to children. Where you tell people something which while not strictly 100% correct, will guide in the right direction, to prevent too many mistakes aalong the way.

Classic example is science, first you're told there is nothing smaller than a molecule, then you're told more, that those are made of even smaller things called atoms at that they're the smallest thing, then you get told that actually they're made of neutrons and protons etc, and that they are the smallest thing, then you study further and suddenly there's things called quasars and stuff... Lies, but lies to help you digest info at an understandable level.


Ha I did physics at university and you sharp learn that all through school you are lied too and things don't work how you were told they do. Turns out molecules are pretty big in the grand scale of things. I've had this question in a few crosswords (me and my friend were doing a crossword in the union and had spent our morning measuring light in nano-meters) the crossword question was..."4 letters, name a small unit of measurement" - the answer is "inch". Ok being 'geeks' we objected lol as an inch is in reality pretty #40## big.
Transferring information is filled with this sort of filtering of the long story in order to paint a short story that can be digested. I do research and teach some at a university and both there and here on the forum with hobby topics I find that the need for distillation is constantly happening. You know the up-quarks and down-quarks are going to confuse the student if you haven't already introduced the protons and neutrons that they make up. You also know that up and down quarks are going to be confused even more if you introduce charm and strange-quarks or top and bottom-quarks at the same time. :lol: Its all about painting the picture that can be absorbed at the moment without so much extra that the point will be obscured. That's just good teaching.

OK, back to the topic of the thread! I had one of my usual long-winded posts with basically a less clear package of the same info OM47 just said up above but I had to abandon it, so I'll just agree and not repeat. I'm surprised though that Tolak has not mentioned the issue of water authorities periodically dumping in excess chlorination products to "handle problem areas." He's the one I learned about that from and its another issue. You never know when they are going to overdose chlorine/chloramine.

That leaves us with two significant unknowns:
1) How far your house is from headend where the chlorine product is dosed to the city water.
2) Whether they've decided to super-dose the same day you are using tap water to rinse media.

And two more known but possibly more significant variations:
1) Contact time of your media with the chlorinated water because of how you clean or expose it, as OM described.
2) Chorine versus Chloramines, as covered nicely just above.

In practice I agree with the others that the major division for worry is probably whether we are dealing with the fragile colonies that beginners have during the first 6 months to a year of a new tank or whether we are talking about the big robust colonies that established hobbyists have in their tanks with sometimes years of maturity. I try to throw in that qualification as often as I can in discussions of dechlor, but it does tend to add a lot of sentences. There's also the qualification that sometimes we're working with inexpensive fish that are easily replaced whereas other times people have delicate or expensive fish and just wish to take all easy precautions with them. Dechlor is one of those cheap, easy precautions, even if the thing its guarding against is an infrequent, low-likelihood occurance. When I put on my hat as an experienced aquarist I really enjoy this type of discussion but when I put on my hat as a beginner I worry about the newcomer with fragile colonies still cycling who could significantly damage his beginning colonies needlessly by misunderstanding all the angles.

WD
 
So should we consider a mature colony as one that has been established for a minimum of a year do you think? I had considered my media as mature at 5 months old...probably a whole other debate I am guessing...

For me, regardless of whether my fish are cheap to replace or not, as I have watched them grow and mature both in body and mind, I am less inclined to take any risks, including not dechlorinating when I do a water change...

Interesting stuff, thanks for the knowledge sharing
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Don't get me wrong. I see no reason not to use tank water to clean. It's quick and easy, possibly easier than using a tap. I also see no reason no to dose water, it's pretty easy and inexpensive.

I was just trying to understand how the source of our bacteria kills our bacteria... Because if it did then we wouldn't get any bacteria from there. But the whole ppm of chlorine, in tap water argument makes a lot of sense.

And on the lies to children thing, I don't exactly disagree with the method. I'm sure it's best to know what a shop is before you learn how to run one... Or how to use a computer before you try replacing a motherboard etc.
 
I get it Chris, curiosity is the reason for all the questions, that works for me :)


I was originally thinking the bacteria must come from the air, and maybe some does, but like you say the whole ppm of chlorine not affecting all bacteria makes total sense now. Thanks to your curiosity I now understand something else that little bit better, cheers
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Oh yeah, I particularly like these kinds of topics, lots of fun. This particular one I remember was the subject of a good discussion in the scientific section a long time back and I think I remember being pretty satisfied that the preponderance of evidence was for the bacteria coming in in small numbers in the tap water. It is indeed interesting to note that practically the same process (just with different bacterial species I believe) goes on in soil.

WD
 
It sounds corny I know but don't we live in an amazing world :)

*One too many beers tonight I feel
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