Tank Levels - Confused By Testing?

[Haych]

right, i am really confused.

my tank had been up and running happily for a while, and had also been cycled too. NO problems at all, everything running as it should be.

i moved the tank friday to the other side of the room, so i had to do a MASSIVE water change, i think it was like 80%

i filled the tank ENSURING the fish didnt get too cold, so i added hot water, (they were all floating in a bag and left to accustom too), and i put them in when they were finished and safe to.

yet, i lost a cory i bought from an LFS, so i took him back, and they tested my water, and i had high nitrite, so i went home and tested the water.

I had EXCESSIVELY high, nitrite, nitrate and ammonia/ammonium.

i did a 25% water change to try and rectify this. will do again today.

i have tested again this morning, levels are lower, but still quite high, and over 2 days, i lost 6 fish due to this.

now, i did find a male guppy trapped in a plant, that i COULDNT find since friday. I think he originally died as he got sucked up the vac and outside i did retrieve him and put him back as he was alive. but i think the stress was too much for him.

could HE be the reason for the upset in my water? i find it odd that I do a clear out, and things get WORSE. things are dropping slowly, and i am not too concerned as everyone left seems ok, i am keeping a very close eye on them and doing daily changes.

i am just confused as to the cause?

 

[aly_starh]

Possibly, as he may have been left there for a few days before you noticed, releasing ammonnia etc.

Just keep an eye on the water stats, doing regular water changes when needed

 

[mattlee]

if you have moved the tank you will have moved the substrate quite a bit even if it was left in the tank. maybe this has released trapped poo and uneaten food etc therefor higher ammonia/nitrates....! or if sand substrate the gases that build up underneath that are poisonous if not stired every few weeks!
i dont think the dead fish would have helped too....
it maybe 1 of these but not 100%, just a thought mate

 

[Haych]

thanks for the replies, its just made things VERY hard to deal with, and losing 6 of my fave guys, one being my leopard cory

will keep at it though, am gonna do a change again tonight when the kids are in bed

 

[Haych]

UPDATE:

can anyone explain this to me, as i have never had any issues before i never really thought about it.

i have done a test this morning, and am due to do a water change later (always wait for kids to be in bed). the test showed a SLIGHT lowering of ammonia/ammonium and nitRITES, so i know water changes are gradually working.

yet, for some reason, the nitRATES have shot through the roof. what can cause this? and what damage can nitRATES do?

thanks again.

 

[aly_starh]

whats the NitrAte reading?

What is nitrate?
Nitrate (NO3 ) is a by-product
of the breakdown of fish wastes by beneficial bacteria living in the filter. It encourages algal growth and may be toxic to some fish and invertebrates.

How can I tell how much is present in the tank?
You should test your water every week for signs of nitrate using a liquid or tablet test kit. Test your tapwater at the same time and compare the two.

If you are maintaining your tank properly, the two nitrate levels should be quite similar. If you're not, the nitrate level in your tank will be much higher.

Surely nitrate hasn't always been seen as a problem?
There's been a sneaking suspicion that high levels can cause problems for fish for many years. Research has failed to show that it is toxic to most species, except at high levels. However, fishkeeping experience suggests that it does actually cause a number of problems for fish.

What levels should I be aiming for?
Try to keep the nitrate level as low as possible. Some fish and inverts are particularly sensitive to raised levels. For inverts and sensitive marines, the levels msut be below 15ppm. Tropical freshwater species should be kept below 40ppm, where possible.

How do I maintain a low nitrate level?
Overfeeding is a common cause of high nitrate levels.Regular partial water changes of 25% every week or two help to keep the nitrate level low. Do them with a syphon-powered gravel cleaner and remove decaying organic material from the gravel at the same time.

Nitrate-removing filter media will keep the nitrate level extra low, but isn't a substitute for plenty of water changes.

What effect will high nitrate levels have on my fish?
High levels of nitrate will stress your fish. This affects their immune systems and they are much more at risk from diseases such as whitespot.

Increased levels over a long term may reduce your fishes' lifespans, cause deformities and won't help much if you're trying to breed them - poor water quality doesn't put fish in the mood.

What should I do if the nitrate level in my tapwater is very high?
If you're keeping delicate fish or inverts any water you use for water changes should be run through a nitrate-removing resin, or a tapwater filter like a Nitragon, before use to remove the nitrate.

An RO unit is even better as it also filters out metals, pesticides, hardness etc, so it's ideal for softwater fish as well as delicate marine species.

The existing fish in my aquarium all seem healthy and my ammonia and nitrite levels are at nil. The tank has been set up for two years. Every time I buy new fish, they stop eating after a couple of days and then, usually within a week, they die. What's the problem?
You may have checked the ammonia and nitrite levels (which are very important), but what about your nitrate level?

If your nitrate has gradually risen over time since your tank was set up, your fish will probably have built up some resistance to it. But any new stock you add to a tank where there is a high nitrate level may fall ill or die.

Try to stay on top of tank maintenance and check how much you're feeding your fish. Remember to remove all eaten food from the aquarium.

------------------------------------------- Extract, from Practical Fish Keeing

 

[Haych]

thanks for that, has made things easier. obviously its an "issue" but not like nitRITES are.

will keep at what i'm doing, as it must be doing something, as they are going down, slowly all be it, but still going down.

i have a sera testing kit, and it compares on the chart to 40mg/l

 

[fatheadminnow]

right, i am really confused.

my tank had been up and running happily for a while, and had also been cycled too. NO problems at all, everything running as it should be.

i moved the tank friday to the other side of the room, so i had to do a MASSIVE water change, i think it was like 80%

i filled the tank ENSURING the fish didnt get too cold, so i added hot water, (they were all floating in a bag and left to accustom too), and i put them in when they were finished and safe to.

yet, i lost a cory i bought from an LFS, so i took him back, and they tested my water, and i had high nitrite, so i went home and tested the water.

I had EXCESSIVELY high, nitrite, nitrate and ammonia/ammonium.

i did a 25% water change to try and rectify this. will do again today.

i have tested again this morning, levels are lower, but still quite high, and over 2 days, i lost 6 fish due to this.

now, i did find a male guppy trapped in a plant, that i COULDNT find since friday. I think he originally died as he got sucked up the vac and outside i did retrieve him and put him back as he was alive. but i think the stress was too much for him.

could HE be the reason for the upset in my water? i find it odd that I do a clear out, and things get WORSE. things are dropping slowly, and i am not too concerned as everyone left seems ok, i am keeping a very close eye on them and doing daily changes.

i am just confused as to the cause?

If the guppy was not dead then no, he would not contribute to any more ammonia than he was already producing.

What happens when you do a large water change, with a water source with no ammonia, it may put the autotrophic bacteria into a non-active state for a couple of days. This means, when you moved the tank to a different room and added new tap water with 0% ammonia, the beneficial bacteria may go into a state in which they are not going to process any ammonia or nitrite. This is more commonly seen during a fishless cycle,where is the cycle as stalled, that person does a large, 90% ish, water change. In reality, the bacteria then stop processing ammonia. I have also witnesses this first hand with one of my tanks. This could be why you had high levels of ammoina.

Also, the nitrate level in your tank should not be more than 20 ppm above your tap water nitrate level. This means, if your nitrate level in your tap water is 5 ppm, then the nitrate in your tank should not be over 25 ppm. Weekly, NOT every two weeks, water changes will keep your nitrate level in check. After a while you will be able to figure out how much water to change ONCE a week to keep your nitrate level in check. Why once a week? Not are you keeping your nitrate level down, you are also replenishing trace minerals that can only be found in water (tap water in your case) and not in products at your LFS. Also, water conditioners carry trace minerals/nutrients that are beneficial to your fish. So, weekly water changes, usually of about 10-25%, are a necessity for a healthy aquarium!

-FHM

 

[Haych]

thank you very much, that clarifys alot.

but yes, he was dead in the plant, and lord knows how long for

 

[fatheadminnow]

now, i did find a male guppy trapped in a plant, that i COULDNT find since friday. I think he originally died as he got sucked up the vac and outside i did retrieve him and put him back as he was alive. but i think the stress was too much for him.

Oh, well it sounded like to me you said he was alive so you put him back?

-FHM

 

[Haych]

yes, he was ORIGINALLY alive, hence i put him back, but after i had done the change, filled tank etc, when i looked saturday (day after) i couldnt find him. i found him dead in the plant monday. so he could have been dead for 2-3 days.

but, when i found him outside (after being sucked out poor little guy) he was alive, swimming in a puddle that my hose had made. but he was in twigs, and obviously me trying to grab him, him flapping so i had to grab him by his tail, must have been too much for him in the end

 

[OldMan47]

I see at least 2 things contributing to your nitrate problem. Both have already been mentioned and I am just trying to bring it together. The dead fish will contribute a fair amount of ammonia to the water as long as it is left in place. Stirring the gravel, as will happen when you are moving a tank, will also release much of the dirt that has been laying trapped in the substrate. Once released into the tank's water, that material will start decaying much more rapidly and contribute to the ammonia production. Now for the fun part. If your filter is able to keep up with the ammonia production, or at least not lose ground too fast, each one ppm of ammonia will be converted to about 3.6 ppm of nitrates. With a large input of ammonia from the stirred gravel and the dead fish, you will quickly build very high levels of nitrates. One of the reasons we usually recommend a thorough gravel vac before moving a tank is that the substrate inevitably will be stirred and release anything that it is holding. Another thing you may want to consider is still a source, even after the water has cleared. The dirt that the filter has managed to remove from the water after it got cloudy with the stirred up substrate, is still in the flow path of that filter and is continuing to decay right where it is, in the filter. Next time you do a water change, try doing a filter media rinse in the used tank water to remove that ongoing source of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.

 

[Haych]

i have already cleaned the pump out as i knew fry was in there, it was done AFTER the tank move, and i am doing between 20-40% water changes daily, and the ammonia IS going down and the nitrates going up, so that makes complete sense!

thanks so much guys, and oldman47, you definately deserved your promotion

 

[Schmill]

NOTE: I think in OldMans post above where he has written NitrAtes, he meant NitrItes, as those are the ratios for Ammonia to NitrIte conversion.
Also Ammonia is processed into NitrIte, and then NitrIte is processed into NitrAte.

Remember, Ammonia burns, NitrIte suffocates, and NitrAte well, kinda annoys them... It's a reducing danger as you work along the process, but you do ideally want the Ammonia and the NitrIte to be zero at all times.

 

[OldMan47]

You are quite right about the progression Schmill. The ratio for nitrites is 2.7 ppm for each ppm of nitrite. When it continues through to nitrates, the ratio is 3.6 to one.