Talk To Me Like Im A 5 Year Old ... :)

[MasterHu]

Thanks for the replies guys, fully appreciate it !... so if i stay cold water? .. is there a difference in fish look, ? temperament? ... size? ...

btw, if i get some plants and put them in before fish i.e while the cycle is going is this fine? or do i just need to set it up .. let it cycle then add plants?

 

[saltynay]

There is a difference in the number of fish you have available to you as the species are entirely different. There is a wide scope in each group of Tropical and Coldwater species but generally the two groups rarely overlap. In terms of size some of the largest and smallest fish in the world are found in both water types. In terms of temperament there is a wide scope from aggressive to peaceful and in terms of colouration there is again wide scope but generally tropical are more colourful however this is a paradaise fish:

http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipe...100px-Macropodus_opercularis_-_side_(aka).jpg

Which is very colourful cold water species

Start looking up profiles on the fish listed in this thread as well as your reading in the beginners section. Whilst you read and research start cycling (it will take approximately 6 weeks) your tank as a cold water tank so that you can start adding fish when you have finished your reading and researching and chosen.

Plants need research otherwise they will turn to mush but they can go in while cycling

 

[sXeLifer]

A couple of Bala "Sharks" are great to watch too and interact well with each other

Red Sharks and rainbow sharks grow big but take time to do so and are only suitable when theres one of them but they're good on they're own

Dont buy Clown loaches at this stage as they are VERY susceptible to ich and although considered favourites can be difficult to care for

Sorry, sXeLifer, I'm not 'having a go' at you or anything, so don't take this personally, but NONE of those fish should be anywhere near a 60l tank The Bala shark, for instance, can grow to a foot long and needs to be in a shoal of at least 5 or 6...same for the Clown loach.

neon tetras are classics and a school of them look Uber cool as they have great colours and gleam so if you have say 8 or more they could always be the centre-piece

Cichlids generally will only get on with cichlids so avoid them

Neons are great, but do not do well in tanks that are less than 6 months old, even if they've been properly cycled. There are plenty of cichlids that get on with other fish; not all cichlids are as aggressive as the Mbuna you linked to! Apistogrammas, for example, make lovely community inhabitants and many people on this forum have them.

MasterHu; the play sand that you can get from B&Q or Argos is much cheaper than 'proper' aquarium sand and is just as good. I don't know what test kits P@H do, but most of us on here recommend the API master test kit, which you can find for £15- 20 on Ebay. It seems expensive, but will last you a long time and be invaluable to you in your early days of fishkeeping! You need tests for ammonia and nitrite as a bare minimum, but nitrate and pH would be very useful too.

No offense taken im still learning too
I kept a red shark and a bala in my 60L for 2 years and they were fine. Thanks for the heads up on the cichlids though I thought that Rams were the only cichlids nice enough to keep in a community

 

[saltynay]

Just because it can be done doesn't always make it advisable goldfish bowl the casing point but I think everyone has been there. I actually use to be the moderator of a forum 8 years ago and kept a red cap orando in a totally inadequate tank because I couldn't find a home for it or a LFS that would take it. I was enforcing the rules without following them myself kinda of ironic.

 

[FishAreFriendsNotFood10]

there are plenty of dwarf community cilchids i only thought the same as you until my eyes were opened by this forum hehe...

 

[rob158]

to the forum,

 

[MasterHu]

Thanks, so what about plants? i know my local pets @ home as a large selection of underwater plants would i be better off just going in and asking? ...

 

[moochy13]

i frequently visit 7 or 8 local shops, and the number of coldwater fish available is minute compared to tropical fish. im in the Uk, may be different somewhere else in the world, but i only ever see goldfish, or fish that look like goldfish (to the unitiated). and personally i think goldfish look rubbish, especially the ones that are bred to look even more ridiculous. i cant see that tropical fish are any harder to keep because they need warm water. lots of people start off tropical (i did) and seen as you've found the forum before you started, you wont have any problems.

most of the info posted well worth listening to, but the guy who was suggesting bala sharks, clown loaches and sailfin plecs (18 inch fish) is way off the mark. they will live in your tank, but they wont be enjoying it. i had a 'bala' shark in my small tank for ages, he never got more than 4 or 5 inches, i thought that was normal. then i got to the forum, found out it was a foot long fish, and relaised i had stunted his growth big time. not good.

i personally find sand easier to look after, instead of having to dig into the substrate to clean it, everything lays neatly on top of the sand, so you can just zoom over it with your vaccuum hoover thing, not disturbing anything. until recently i had a small patch of gravel in my tank, the rest was sand. i used to vac my gravel quite a lot, but when i removed the gravel, the amount of crap left under it was horrific. i wont be going back to gravel. argos sand, as mentioned 3 quid for 15kg, will do your tank easy. just make sure you wash it out thoroughly. put enough in a bucket, jam a hose down to the bottom and run the water until the water on top is clear. then agitate the sand in the bucket, and repeat the process until you think its all clean.

fish wise, visit as many shops as you can, write down the names of fish you like, then come tell us what you would like. dont listen to the shops, they want your money and repeat business. leave your plants out till the cycle has finished, one less variable to worry about. somebody suggested platy's, mollies and guppies. all acceptable, but if you get males and females, you will very quickly have a tank with too many fish in it.

 

[MasterHu]

Ok, but is it vital i leave out the plants or could i add them for the cycle?

Also as far as writing fish down, im taking notes from this forum into the shop, and looking at the names of fishes reccomended,

afterall yes i want to get this going but i do have a budget for it all , not good me seeing a fish for like £5 and wanting like 5 of them =/

 

[moochy13]

you could add them, but its really not much hassle to add them afterwards, and it could affect your readings, leading you to believe your filter is more cycled than it actually is. bear in mind that once your cycle is done, you could happily remove the vast majority of the water and plant the tank. very few if any of the good bacteria live in the water or substrate, you cant change too much of your water, as long as its always dechlorinated and about the same temp as in the tank. obviously removing 80% of warm tank water and replacing it with water from your cold tap is not good for the fish. and as long as you dont leave the filter 'dry' for more than an hour it wont be a problem. and just to make sure you know, dont clean the filter under the tap - untreated tap water will kill your bacteria (and fish), hence the need for dechlorinator. to clean the filter sponges/rocks just rinse them lightly in old tank water. they dont need to be massively squeezed or overly clean, just enough to remove the surface crap that will build up.

most nice fish are indeed 'expensive'. with my first tank (techincally my dads), i baulked at the idea of spending a fiver on a fish. now ive got my own set up, ive somehow grown to accepting that 20-odd quid for a nice baby plec is acceptable. you still wont catch me spending more than that though. thankfully, theres no pressure to get all your fish at once, get a group, like you say might cost you 30 quid (always try blag a deal if buying a group, doesnt hurt to ask), but you could then leave it a few weeks till you get some more, depending on your income. some people dont like them, but my local pets at home is quite good, some of the staff are quite knowledgable, and they always have deals on fish like 2 quid each or 6 for a tenner.

depending on your lfs, they might not stock some of the fish suggested to you. things like rams, apistos, some plecs etc while not rare, are not necssarily the most common fish to sell to people. they may order fish in specifially for you though.

whereabouts do you live? maybe somebody will suggest some good places to visit.

 

[MasterHu]

Ok, i'll bare all this in mind, thanks

I'm from Sunderland

 

[moochy13]

Ok, i'll bare all this in mind, thanks

I'm from Sunderland

if you support Sunderland football club i refuse to help you anymore

 

[Skins]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Keith.

 

[saltynay]

Mooch perhaps as you have never experienced cold water fully you don't see them as much as some of us. Bit like buying a new car you never notice how many there are until you have one. There are around 10 varieties of goldies and 4 of those are genetic freaks of nature. You have koi which is around 12 different varieties. Countless small fish. Countless invertebrates and amphibs or turtles. I would say the average store has half as much cold compatible stock as they do cold and half as much marine as tropical. Don't write off cold too quickly, I have done both and have been happy both sides of the fence hence why you will see me comment all over this forum.

 

[moochy13]

i dont doubt what you're saying, as mentioned i only see what there is (or isnt) in my lfs, and no very little of C/W fish. but considering were talking about a 60l tank, arent koi/turtles/goldfish/amphibs all a moot point anyway, far too big for the tank ? realistically, which coldwater species could be kept in the tank, that you can go get from your lfs and are bright and colourful ? (main requirement of masterHu).

for my part, i should have made it clearer that when i said i dont see much cold water, i meant that all i see are goldfish (too big for this tank) and pondfish.