Stocking Advice

[TheChards]

Hi everyone.

Although I still have to talk my wife round to the idea, I am hoping to setup a large(ish) tank at some point which I hope will be home to the following fish:

3 x Clown Loaches
6 x Tiger Barbs
6 x Peppered Catfish
8 x Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish
3 x Dwarf Gouramis (1m: 2f)

This is 26 fish with a combined adult length of 93 inches (lengths provided by fishprofiles.com) so I'd go for a tank of around 93 US gallons or about 350 litres give or take about 20 litres.

I know that Clown Loaches are very sociable fish and have read that they do well with Tiger Barbs so hope that a combination of 3 Clown Loaches and 6 Tiger Barbs will keep them all happy and prevent any shyness. I don't anticipate any trouble with the catfish either as they've always been peaceful and active when I've kept them before. The rainbowfish are a bit of an unknown quantity and whilst I know that male Dwarf Gouramis can be a bit territorial I'm hoping that one male by himself with two females to keep him happy should mean he doesn't try to pick on anyone. My biggest concern really is whether the Tiger Barbs will pick on either the rainbowfish or the DGs despite neither of them having especially elaborate fins (although I don't know whether the DGs "feelers" will be fin-nipped at all?).

Those are my thoughts so far anyway. If anybody has any comments/ suggestions then I'd be very grateful to hear them!

Many thanks in advance,
Dan

 

[MOW4T]

from what ive seen tiger barbs are trial and error, most ive had in the past have been aggressive/nippy but i currently have a shoal of 7 in with guppies and they dont even look near them, i can only prosume the bigger the group the less aggression.

 

[drobbyb]

That's a nice size group of rainbows. Just make sure if you are mixing the sexes to get more females than males.

 

[Wills]

It looks quite good, just a few things I would say though. First thing is the clown loaches, eventually the recommended tank for them is a 125 gallon 6ft tank how ever they do take a long long time to grow most of the time. But the other thing is that with the clown loaches being the only large fish in there at a max of 12 inches but its going to take them a while to get there like literally years and even then when they are full grown I think that the tank will look really really empty. If it were me I would either drop the clowns and go for smaller loaches and up all your schools or get get the clowns and get some bigger fish for the tank. Its just personal preference but even at 350 liters its a really sizeable tank and I really do think that the small fish in small schools will just get swallowed up in the tank. Dont get me wrong there is nothing wrong with it health and care wise Im just thinking about aesthetics really.

Wills

 

[Curiosity101]

I totally agree with wills. I'd keep the idea of a 350l ish tank, drop the clowns in favour of a larger group of smaller loaches.
Possibilities...
Zebra Loach
Bengal Loach
Burmese Loach
Polka Dot loach
YoYo Loach
Chinese Hillstream Loach
Kuhli Loach


Swap the gouramis out for a larger species such as moonlight, opaline, gold, three spot or pearl (I may have missed some but I think that's all the larger ones).

And then generally just up to number of everything else,
2 x any of the gouramis I mentioned
8 x Neon Dwarf Rainbows
8-10 x Corys
8 x Barbs (if it were me I'd switch to a marginally smaller type of barb, purely because once fully grown they'd have been the same size as the dwarf gouramis, and not that far off the larger sized gouramis. As they're meant to be 'dithers' it could look a bit odd. I'd go for something like... gold barb, or if it's the shape you like then one of the larger tetra such as the black skirt or bleeding heart.)

I know with my suggestions I've totally changed your tank, so if you completely ignore them then I wont be offended
But they're just a few ideas.

 

[TheChards]

Hi again everyone.

Many thanks for all of your advice and suggestions, I'm always keen to know what other people think even if it isn't necessarily what I want to hear!

One of the main reasons for the tank is that I'd like to keep Clown Loaches so I'd be really reluctant to lose them. The Tiger Barbs are linked in with this really as I've read that Clown Loaches like to be in big schools but will school with Tiger Barbs and since I wouldn't be able to fit a large school of Clown Loaches into anything that my wife is ever likely to be especially happy about me keeping, the Tiger Barbs seem like a good compromise! I would happily increase the size of the school from 6 to 8 or more though if it improves things. I hope this doesn't sound too stubborn or awkward but I do really like Clown Loaches and want to do things properly...

The Dwarf Gouramis and Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish were just a thought really although I do like the idea of getting one or two of the larger Gouramis instead of the three Dwarfs. I don't know Gouramis well but I'll be sure to read up on what's available and compatible. Would a male-female pair be best or should I go by 1m:2f? If so, I think I'd rather stick with a single guy unless he'll be unhappy/ lonely by himself.

Finally I'm not certain what to do about the Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish. I could either double the number and/ or include a school of larger Rainbowfish such as Bosemanis? 6 Bosemani and 12 Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish seems quite appealing to me but I'm worried about pushing the capacity of the tank as I know Bosemanis can grow quite large. Alternatively I could stick with the 8 – 12 Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish but include another school of similar fish such as perhaps some Harlequin Rasboras or some larger Tetras?

As always, many thanks in advance for any comments/ advice/ suggestions – it's all welcome!

Dan

 

[arobinson1984]

What are the tanks dimensions? With clown loaches being a mid/bottom dweller, the tanks length is more important than the heigth. Also obviously the tank depth has to be enough for fully grown clown loaches to manouvre. I still wouldnt recommend putting clowns in there although they are great fish. The do really need to be in groups of 6+ and also will eventually need a 6ft long tank.

Andy

 

[TheChards]

Hi arobinson, thanks for your reply.

The tank doesn't have any dimensions at present as this was all based around an idea for a tank I'd like to setup at some point in the future (preferably next year as I am hoping to be in a house by then rather than a flat). So although I had estimated a capacity of around 350 Litres/ 90 US G I hadn't really thought about the dimensions of the tank.

Obviously I want any fish I keep to be happy but I find it very frustrating trying to do everything “by the book” so to speak and following all the good advice I receive here (which I'm always grateful of regardless). For example, if I want to keep a single Clown Loach I need to keep at least six. Six Clown Loaches with the potential to reach a maximum adult size of 12 inches each means a tank of at least 72 US G just to accommodate these and that's 80% of my capacity gone already on a 90 US G tank! By the time I've added any of the other fish I want to keep I'll end up going well over capacity and get flamed on here for doing so. If I had space for an absolutely colossal tank (and the wife's approval of course) then I'd almost certainly get one but at the moment it feels like nothing's big enough (even the tanks I'm still trying to plan) and that I'm destined to spend the rest of my rapidly dwindling fish-keeping days looking at Neon Tetras and Guppies.

Getting back to the point, I was aware that Clown Loaches like to be in schools but based on the fact that they will school with Tiger Barbs I've attempted to reduce the number of Clown Loaches in the school by half in favour of a reasonably-sized school of Tiger Barbs (current thinking is somewhere between 6 and 10). I've read that this works well. Of course, it does then mean that I have to avoid any long-finned fish which isn't ideal but I don't want anyone to suffer if the Tiger Barbs get nippy.

Thoughts/ Suggestions/ Criticisms always welcome!

Many thanks,
Dan

 

[Curiosity101]

If you aren't going to be disuaded from the clowns (and also can't have a 6fter), then my only advice would be to drop the tiger barbs, up the number of clowns and be aware they'll need re-homing once the group reaches an average of about 6inches each.

They're not fast growers, so although this isn't really ethical (buying a fish knowing you need to re-home it later in it's life), it shouldn't be harmful to the fish in the long run (presuming it is transported properly once it's older).

So how about...
1 or 2 x Gourami (perfectly fine on their own, but two can be kept without agression) - (moonlight, opaline, gold, three spot or pearl)
10 x Neon Dwarf Rainbows
8-10 x Corys
6 x Clown loach (to be re-homed at 6")

If you decided on 1 gourami I would go for a larger sized group of rainbows (add 2).
As you can see I'm a fan of large shoals of 1 species as opposed to smaller shoals of many species.

 

[Curiosity101]

Actually you can't base clowns just on their bioload which is what you're currently doing.
You need to base it on tank dimensions aswell. So technically none of your capacity is used up as a 350l tank is unlikely to be the correct dimensions for an adult clown. If it was the correct dimensions, ie. a long, wide and shallow tank. Then yes you would've filled quite a bit of it. And even with double filtration and a good water change routine you're right and they would probably put your tank at around 70-80% stocked.

Also you're never going to see the natural behaviours of clowns that aren't shoaling with just clowns...seems silly getting a fish and then missing out on seeing as many natural behaviours as you can.

Basically the advice you will get is...if you cant fit what you want in the tank you have, then you can't have it. There are many many alternatives to clowns (as I mentioned).
So it's not a case of

destined to spend the rest of my rapidly dwindling fish-keeping days looking at Neon Tetras and Guppies

At all.
It's just finding the correct fish for the space you have. I assure you...if I had a 350l tank I certainly wouldn't be wasting it on neons and guppies! I think I'd probably have some bigger cichlids...a nice plec...some rainbows... *daydreams*

I however only have space for a 120l and have therfore stocked it accordingly. *shrugs*

 

[Joe97]

*Sorry not really to do with your question*

You'll get people saying the inch-per-gallon rule is stupid/doesn't work/only works with certain fish but I think that it can be fully relied upon if you only use fish the tenth the size of the length of your aquarium. (For example a maximum length for a fish of 3 inches in a 30 inch tank).
Hope I helped
Joe

 

[arobinson1984]

Take at look at some of the pictures on here and you'll get an idea as to why clown loaches require such big tanks,

Clown Loaches

(Sorry mods if this link breaks any rules, I'm not sure whether you'd class the website as a 'forum' if so please remove)

Unfortuanately, fish keeping is like many other things in life that has to be done in proportion. If you want large fish but dont have room for the adequate tank then that fish isnt an option, in the same was as if you lived in a tiny flat, you wouldn't get a great dane if you wanted a dog.

Thats the harsh reality really, there are lots of fish I'd love to keep but at this present time I dont have the facilities for them, I'd love an oscar but I currently only have room for my 33 gal tank until I move house when I'm planning a 6ft or 7ft tank so I'll have to wait.

There is absolutely no point in keeping a particular fish if its not going to be happy. As mentioned above by curiousity, clown loaches will not display their natural behaviour with other fish, including tiger barbs. They need to be with their own species so they feel comfortable. The one thing thats makes clown loaches such a great fish is their personalities and natural behaviour around each other so unless they are kept in the correct groups in adequate tanks then they are basically pointless in a sense.

Andy

 

[drobbyb]

Nice find Andy. The really big one named Marge is a good representation of their potential size.

 

[Davo86]

Hi everyone.

Although I still have to talk my wife round to the idea, I am hoping to setup a large(ish) tank at some point which I hope will be home to the following fish:

3 x Clown Loaches
6 x Tiger Barbs
6 x Peppered Catfish
8 x Neon Dwarf Rainbowfish
3 x Dwarf Gouramis (1m: 2f)

This is 26 fish with a combined adult length of 93 inches (lengths provided by fishprofiles.com) so I'd go for a tank of around 93 US gallons or about 350 litres give or take about 20 litres.

I know that Clown Loaches are very sociable fish and have read that they do well with Tiger Barbs so hope that a combination of 3 Clown Loaches and 6 Tiger Barbs will keep them all happy and prevent any shyness. I don't anticipate any trouble with the catfish either as they've always been peaceful and active when I've kept them before. The rainbowfish are a bit of an unknown quantity and whilst I know that male Dwarf Gouramis can be a bit territorial I'm hoping that one male by himself with two females to keep him happy should mean he doesn't try to pick on anyone. My biggest concern really is whether the Tiger Barbs will pick on either the rainbowfish or the DGs despite neither of them having especially elaborate fins (although I don't know whether the DGs "feelers" will be fin-nipped at all?).

Those are my thoughts so far anyway. If anybody has any comments/ suggestions then I'd be very grateful to hear them!

Many thanks in advance,
Dan

Hi there

IMO that is a very reasonable stocking for a tank that size,

Tiger barbs and Praecox Rainbows complement each other well and will give you a big group of dithers along with the clowns,

Because of this I feel your centrepiece fish, which currently seems to be the Dwarf Gouramis will be lost in the setup IMO. That matched with the fact that they are weak fish at the best of times and may struggle with the other boisterous species in the tank, A trio of Gold or Pearl Gouramis however would work well IMO

Now onto the Clown Loach; a 60"x18"x18" which works out at only 319Litres is going to be ample for a group of 3 for the best part of 5-7 years IME, at which point they are likely to be around the 6-8" mark at most, and with the kind of filtration required for a tank of this size and the relatively low bioload (especially for the first two or so years when the clowns are still small) I would have no concerns adding them to this sized setup,

And tbh if it was me I would go as far to say that personally I would lose the corys and up the number to 5 but thats just me

With regards to Marge (and the recently deceased Albert) yes she is still growing and is currently 11.5" But she is now suggested to be around 20 years old, and is only being kept in a 6x2x2 with another 49 Clown Loach I may add

 

[VickiandKev]

And tbh if it was me I would go as far to say that personally I would lose the corys and up the number to 5 but thats just me

With regards to Marge (and the recently deceased Albert) yes she is still growing and is currently 11.5" But she is now suggested to be around 20 years old, and is only being kept in a 6x2x2 with another 49 Clown Loach I may add

I would agree with the suggestion of upping the clowns and losing the corys, I have only seen natural behaviours from my clowns since upping their shoal size to 8.

On a side note: I had no idea the tank Marge was kept in was so small! It's praised so highly on that forum. I'm just due to get my 6 x 2 x 2 and I thought that was just about the right size for my 8 (tiny) clowns!

I also would like to add that if you think you will be 'allowed' a tank upgrade to 6ft in the next 5 years, then you should be fine to get 5 or 6 clowns. I intentionally bought more clowns than my 300L tank could hold at full size, knowing that my tank would be upgraded to a 6ft-er within months.
A 60" 350L tank should not stunt a very young clown's growth if they're only in it for a few years.