So Now What?

It's also worth mentioning that if you have very soft water, like me, it will have little to no buffering capacity whatsoever (buffering being your water's ability to resist pH changes) and the pH will be up and down like a yo-yo during fishless cycling.

I do get a massive boost in pH whenever I add ammonia too, but it can drop quite rapidly as it processes.
 
It's not that complicated really. It all comes down to the entire nitrogen cycle. Ammonia (NH3) is produced by the fish as waste. The NH3 is "processed" by the A-bacs (ammonia processing bacteria such as nitrosomonas) into a compound containing nitrite (NO2). The nitrite is then processed by the N-bacs (nitrite processing bacteria such as nitrosoma) into a compound containing nitrate (NO3). As the nitrate in your tank builds up, usually as nitric ACID (HNO3), which will lower the pH of the water in your tank once the buffering capacity of the water has been reached.

Hence, a pH crash during a cycle. Normally when you have a tank fully up and running, you will change the water every week or so to keep the nitrates under control. However, during a cycle the water isn't changed, so the nitrates can just build up out of control.
Appreciate breaking it down in a straight forward manner - but just to clarify: I am doing a fish-in cycle. I have been changing 25-50% of water every day or two. If my nitrates were raising as the pH dropped,I would understand. When the ammonia, nitrite and nitrates all read zero for a week straight and the pH is jumping up & down, I am baffled. I guess there is a chance I am getting false nitrate readings, I will try to get a second opinion on that. Maybe that would explain everything.
 
My apologies. I missed the "fish-in" part. That does change things. There are other pH factors. Cezza points out a very important point, which is the fact that your water might be very soft (very little mineral content) which will lead to far greater fluctuations in pH.

One thing to consider: Tap water generally has a higher pH straight from the tap than after 24 hours of sitting out. Depending on when you test your pH and when you change your water, you may be seeing very different results as a result of the natural fluctuations in pH as a result of the gasses coming out of the water when it is no longer under pressure. Are you testing your water before and after water changes for pH? How long after your water change are you testing?
 
One thing to consider: Tap water generally has a higher pH straight from the tap than after 24 hours of sitting out. Depending on when you test your pH and when you change your water, you may be seeing very different results as a result of the natural fluctuations in pH as a result of the gasses coming out of the water when it is no longer under pressure. Are you testing your water before and after water changes for pH? How long after your water change are you testing?

No worries, I am learning as I go and wondering if there is something super obvious I am just missing

I have tested tap water straight out of the tap, and also after sitting out for 24 hrs. It is always 7.6. The pH in my tank was staying steady at 7.6 for first few weeks, then all of a sudden, it just dropped to 6.0. It has been dropping to low 6's almost every day for a week. For the first few weeks, I was only testing ammonia and pH, but purchased the API Master Kit about 10 days ago and tested ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH each morning and evening since then. I have mostly done water changes in evening and re-tested water again the next morning. Typically, if the pH dropped in the evening test, I would do a water change, and the following morning the pH was back to 7.6. Then, by the evening it is back to low 6's again. It has only happened for the past week. I added some crushed coral in filter area last night, hoping it will stabilize.
 
quick update: 24 hrs after adding a bit of crushed coral to filter and the pH stayed locked at 7.6! First time in over a week that has happened. Hopefully it will continue and I will see a nitrate bump in the near future.
 
Good job!
yahoo.gif
 
The role of the crushed coral is to raise the kH, which will help to keep your pH much more stable. Ultimately, it is the stability of pH that both the bacteria you need to cultivate and the fish you are trying to keep both require more than a specific number. Good job. I'm guessing that your nitrates were going up but that your water had virtually no buffering capacity. So, in the last week your ammonia has started to be processed into nitrAte for the first time, and that is why you were seeing the drastic drop in pH. The water changes just kept bringing it back up again, only to be overmatched in its buffering capacity and the pH would fall. So, in my opinion, the good news is two fold: 1) you are buffering your water more effectively which will keep your fish "happier" and 2) your biofilter is starting to process nitrite! The cycle is getting closer to completion.

What are your recent numbers in ammonia and nitrite (I don't include the nitrate, because generally speaking the API test kit for nitrate is highly flawed)?
 
The role of the crushed coral is to raise the kH, which will help to keep your pH much more stable. Ultimately, it is the stability of pH that both the bacteria you need to cultivate and the fish you are trying to keep both require more than a specific number. Good job. I'm guessing that your nitrates were going up but that your water had virtually no buffering capacity. So, in the last week your ammonia has started to be processed into nitrAte for the first time, and that is why you were seeing the drastic drop in pH. The water changes just kept bringing it back up again, only to be overmatched in its buffering capacity and the pH would fall. So, in my opinion, the good news is two fold: 1) you are buffering your water more effectively which will keep your fish "happier" and 2) your biofilter is starting to process nitrite! The cycle is getting closer to completion.

What are your recent numbers in ammonia and nitrite (I don't include the nitrate, because generally speaking the API test kit for nitrate is highly flawed)?
Thanks for explaining the connection between pH / buffering /cycle process. I am beginning to get the big picture.
After staying steady for 24 hrs, the pH did drop a tiny bit last night, from 7.6 to 7.2. But really the color of the pH test was somewhere between the 7.6 and 7.2 shades of blue, so maybe it was 7.4??
The ammonia, nitrite & nitrate are still at zero. I didn't expect anything to jump immediately, but I am curious to see how things progress moving forward. The water is a little cloudy, which I gather is bacteria bloom.
Question: If ammonia & nitrites stay at zero, the pH stays relatively constant, is there any reason to consider partial water change. I have gotten so used to them to battle the ammonia and then pH drop :unsure:
 
I wouldnt. If you water parameters are good, even with a little cloudiness, there is no real reason to do one except to help the water clear out.
 
You don't seem to be showing the signs of a need to do a water change, so doing a water change is not necessary, but that doesn't mean it would be wrong to do one. Partial water changes are a common tonic for almost all things fish related. When in doubt a water change is the first, best option to correcting any problem. If your fish are struggling with disease, water changes will eliminate some of the pathogens in the water and give the fish's immune system a chance to actually combat the issue themselves. If your fish is damaged (from other fish, or whatever) a water change will help to eliminate the chances of a bacterial infection (remember, the tap water is very low in bacteria). If the nitrate levels start to rise, or any other of the minerals in your water start to build up, the only sure fire way to get rid of them is a water change.


Water changes are a part of standard maintenance of a tank. It just goes with the territory. It is kind of like taking your dog to the vet for shots, or cleaning up the doo-doo. It's just part of the understanding of keeping that animal as a pet. You will almost NEVER be wrong by doing a water change. But, that doesn't mean that you need to. In your case, I would just let things be. A fluctuation in pH is more dangerous to the fish than the fact that it is lower.

However, the next time you do a water change I would be a little more deliberate with the timing of everything. When refilling the tank during your next water change (assuming your pH is around 6.5 or lower) be sure that you don't return the water to the tank too fast. If you have a designated garden hose that you can connect to a sink that would be the best choice. Just slowly let the water trickle in. (Be sure to add dechlorinator to the tank for the total volume of water first though. There are differing opinions on that step, but the way I see it better safe than sorry. Also, the dechlorinator will detoxify any heavy metals that may be present as well.) If you do a 50% water change, add the water back in over the course of two hours, slowly. This will slowly bring the pH back up to the 7.6 range that your tap seems to be holding. (If you don't have a dedicated hose, just slowly pour the water in a little at a time in 15 minute intervals. Maybe 5% of the tank's total volume per go.) pH fluctuations are bad. It's kind of like when you go from a hot tub to a cool swimming pool. The temperature isn't really bad, but the shock of going directly from one to the other is. Fish like to be acclimated to new conditions: pH, temp, kH, mineral content, etc. over a period of time. It is for this reason that you take two hours or so to acclimatize your new fish to your tank, rather than just dropping them in immediately.
 
When refilling the tank during your next water change (assuming your pH is around 6.5 or lower) be sure that you don't return the water to the tank too fast....
Fish like to be acclimated to new conditions: pH, temp, kH, mineral content, etc. over a period of time. It is for this reason that you take two hours or so to acclimatize your new fish to your tank, rather than just dropping them in immediately.

good points about slowly adding the new water. never thought of that.

I am game for water changes, heck I did them almost daily for a stretch when the test results required it.

I guess I was really wondering if I am able to settle into a traditional routine of smaller / scheduled water changes for maintenance as long as none of my daily test results warrant an immediate PWC?
 
Yup. That's the goal. If you see ammonia or nitrite at any level besides 0 (and I mean even a tinge of color that isn't dead on the color it is supposed to be), I would do a PWC. Maybe not a huge amount if the color is just a tinge on the wrong side of 0, but still enough to remove some of the toxins and replace with fresh water. It may not seem like a big deal, but how would you like to be swimming in your own feces? I am one of those people who feels that it is better to change the water too often, rather than not often enough. Only once did I come across a problem with too frequent of water changes... I got a bit of black brush algae, which came as a result of inconsistent CO2 levels in the water. I believe the true cause was insufficient circulation in the water more than excessive water changes. I increased the circulation by adding a second filter (I had been planning to do that all along, I was just waiting for it to be shipped) and I didn't change the water at all for 3 days. The stuff just disappeared. The folks in the planted section said that I would need to actually remove it manually, but that the other steps would stop it from increasing. Well, in my case, it just up and disintegrated into nothing! :good:

Ultimately, I think that you are closing in on the end of the time. If you go a full 7 days with double zeros across the board, regardless of what your pH is, you are cycled for your current bioload. I would wait a full 14 days before I considered adding any more fish, and in your situation with the pH still being a bit unstable, I'd wait until that fully stabilizes. The crushed coral will do the trick, but it will take a little while before the buffering capacity of your water comes back into the position it needs to be.


One word of caution: You are using crushed coral to increase the kH of your tank. Always be aware of that. The reason most folks don't do things like that is so that a big water change is always available as a basic cure-all solution to nearly every problem. You will not have that luxury. (Of course, you really didn't have much other alternative.) You will need to be a bit more careful about advice folks give you on this board. The last thing you are going to want is to make matters worse during a crisis. (Doing massive water changes could actually do more harm than good in your situation, given the potential difference between your tap and tank water.)

As far as routine maintenance goes, you are going to have to find the rhythm with your tank. The pH will probably always drop a little between water changes. You will need to find just the right time and the right amount of water to change so that you don't shock your fish with too big a change in pH or kH. I would suggest that you change your water when the pH drops no more than 0.5 on the scale. It is going to take you some time to figure out how frequently and how much water you need to change so that you can keep the pH/kH fluctuations small. For example: If you currently have 7.6 pH, change it when the pH drops to 7.1. But, if you change only 30% of the water, it may not go back up to 7.6. Then, you could change it again when it goes to 7.1, but this time change 40% of the water to see if that brings it back to 7.6. It will take some time to get into the rhythm you need. My guess is that in your situation, more frequent but smaller volume changes would probably be the way to go. Personally, I do a 30% water change every week to 10 days. (if it is 10 days, I change 50%). But, my water is locked in at 6.8 pH and my tap water is 7.0. So it really doesn't matter much for me, my tank and tap water conditions are almost identical (except for the amount of minerals and nitrates). So, a big change for me doesn't cause an issue and is a perfect cure all. For your situation, you might need to change your water every 3 or 4 days, but only about 15% of the volume. This will ultimately have about the same effect as my changes, but with smaller fluctuations.
 
Yup. That's the goal. If you see ammonia or nitrite at any level besides 0 (and I mean even a tinge of color that isn't dead on the color it is supposed to be), I would do a PWC. Maybe not a huge amount if the color is just a tinge on the wrong side of 0, but still enough to remove some of the toxins and replace with fresh water. It may not seem like a big deal, but how would you like to be swimming in your own feces? I am one of those people who feels that it is better to change the water too often, rather than not often enough. Only once did I come across a problem with too frequent of water changes... I got a bit of black brush algae, which came as a result of inconsistent CO2 levels in the water. I believe the true cause was insufficient circulation in the water more than excessive water changes. I increased the circulation by adding a second filter (I had been planning to do that all along, I was just waiting for it to be shipped) and I didn't change the water at all for 3 days. The stuff just disappeared. The folks in the planted section said that I would need to actually remove it manually, but that the other steps would stop it from increasing. Well, in my case, it just up and disintegrated into nothing! :good:

Ultimately, I think that you are closing in on the end of the time. If you go a full 7 days with double zeros across the board, regardless of what your pH is, you are cycled for your current bioload. I would wait a full 14 days before I considered adding any more fish, and in your situation with the pH still being a bit unstable, I'd wait until that fully stabilizes. The crushed coral will do the trick, but it will take a little while before the buffering capacity of your water comes back into the position it needs to be.


One word of caution: You are using crushed coral to increase the kH of your tank. Always be aware of that. The reason most folks don't do things like that is so that a big water change is always available as a basic cure-all solution to nearly every problem. You will not have that luxury. (Of course, you really didn't have much other alternative.) You will need to be a bit more careful about advice folks give you on this board. The last thing you are going to want is to make matters worse during a crisis. (Doing massive water changes could actually do more harm than good in your situation, given the potential difference between your tap and tank water.)

As far as routine maintenance goes, you are going to have to find the rhythm with your tank. The pH will probably always drop a little between water changes. You will need to find just the right time and the right amount of water to change so that you don't shock your fish with too big a change in pH or kH. I would suggest that you change your water when the pH drops no more than 0.5 on the scale. It is going to take you some time to figure out how frequently and how much water you need to change so that you can keep the pH/kH fluctuations small. For example: If you currently have 7.6 pH, change it when the pH drops to 7.1. But, if you change only 30% of the water, it may not go back up to 7.6. Then, you could change it again when it goes to 7.1, but this time change 40% of the water to see if that brings it back to 7.6. It will take some time to get into the rhythm you need. My guess is that in your situation, more frequent but smaller volume changes would probably be the way to go. Personally, I do a 30% water change every week to 10 days. (if it is 10 days, I change 50%). But, my water is locked in at 6.8 pH and my tap water is 7.0. So it really doesn't matter much for me, my tank and tap water conditions are almost identical (except for the amount of minerals and nitrates). So, a big change for me doesn't cause an issue and is a perfect cure all. For your situation, you might need to change your water every 3 or 4 days, but only about 15% of the volume. This will ultimately have about the same effect as my changes, but with smaller fluctuations.
thanks a lot for all the insight. I will post over the weekend with an update.
 
48 hours after adding crushed coral to buffer kH:
ammonia, nitrite & nitrate all still at zero
pH is 7.2, which is a bit lower than the 7.6 from before the pH crash, but much better than the 6.0 I had several days ago
water is super cloudy, which I guess is the bacteria bloom
as long as the parameters stay in check, I will just wait for the water to clear up
 

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