So Now What?

[CezzaXV]

Nitrate tests are notorious for being inaccurate though. Try shaking the bottles and banging them on the desk until your arms fall off and then retest. The test solution tends to solidify quite powerfully.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Cezza is absolutely right. I thought I was shaking the nitrate bottle enough and was getting zeros. Then I started bashing it around and really shaking it until I had nothing left to shake it. Immediately a 40ppm popped out of nowhere!


Do another test for nitrate and really shake it. Shake everything. Bottle 2 is the big issue if it is the API brand. They actually mixed two reagents into that bottle, one of which is actually a powder which does settle out and leaves you with false readings. But if you shake the crap out of it and it still reads zero, you aren't that close to the end, so you might want to go fishless.

 

[quicksandsecrets]

Cezza is absolutely right. I thought I was shaking the nitrate bottle enough and was getting zeros. Then I started bashing it around and really shaking it until I had nothing left to shake it. Immediately a 40ppm popped out of nowhere!


Do another test for nitrate and really shake it. Shake everything. Bottle 2 is the big issue if it is the API brand. They actually mixed two reagents into that bottle, one of which is actually a powder which does settle out and leaves you with false readings. But if you shake the crap out of it and it still reads zero, you aren't that close to the end, so you might want to go fishless.

I have been reading similar comments about nitrate tests in other threads, so I will bang the crap out of the #2 bottle tonight and see what happens.

So a little update, LFS won't take back barbs (it's been a month). I am doing tests twice per day, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate all staying at 0 (but like you said, nitrate amy not be accurate. Here's the odd thing. pH keeps dropping big time. It went from 7.6 to 6.4, I did a 30% water change. Next morning, it was back to 7.6. Last night it was down to 6.0, so I did another 30% water change, and this morning it was only up to 6.4. I will do another water change today. I have read that pH will drop (or even crash) during a cycle - but is it odd to have the ammonia stay at 0 when ph crashes?

I will continue to monitor and change water as much as needed.

 

[quicksandsecrets]

I have been testing water twice each day and cut feeding back to every other day. The ammonia & nitrites readings are steady at zero. Still no nitrates, even when I bang & shake the second bottle like crazy. pH keeps dropping and water gets cloudy. I replace 50% water basically every day, to get pH back in order. Water changes corrected the cloudiness at first, but yesterday's change didn't clear it up. From what I have read, the pH drop and cloudiness are typical during a cycle. Anything I might be missing?

 

[CrustyOnEastCoast]

but is it odd to have the ammonia stay at 0 when ph crashes?

No, I don't think so. But when the Ph crashes your bacteria will probably stop multiplying .. but the ones that are already there might be okay (they might be able to handle the ph swings). In which case, if you already have a large enough bacteria population to handle your current bio load of fish .. then you don't need to worry about the bacteria not multiplying. From your test results .. it seems that you do have bacteria consuming both ammonia and nitrite just fine.

Concerning your other post below this one .. I have some ideas ... but I would rather somebody with more experience than myself chime in on that.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

Cloudiness is more than likely bacterial bloom considering your in cycle. As far as your pH dropping, using just water changes to maintian pH could possibly stress the fish with pH fluctuation. The best way to stabilize your pH during the cycle is to add some crushed coral to your substrate. This will act as a buffer and help stabalize the pH. It will also keep the pH higher to avoid stalling your cycle.

 

[quicksandsecrets]

Cloudiness is more than likely bacterial bloom considering your in cycle. As far as your pH dropping, using just water changes to maintian pH could possibly stress the fish with pH fluctuation. The best way to stabilize your pH during the cycle is to add some crushed coral to your substrate. This will act as a buffer and help stabalize the pH. It will also keep the pH higher to avoid stalling your cycle.

thanks for the tip about crushed coral -
I am guessing I find this at my LFS?
just add it to the substrate?
leave it indefinitely?

 

[mrp3]

I was way excited so I did a fish cycle waited 1 week then added 4 fish then 1 week later got 3 and so on it's now been 3 months and I have 11 (13 2 died ;( sadly ) fish they're all happy I Also had an ammonia problem but it fixed itself after the tank cycled

 

[Dieses Madchen]

Yes you can find it in the LFS and you can leave it indefinitely. Put some in a nylon stocking and stick it in your filter, or you can add it in small amounts to your substrate. I recommend the nylon though, as when your cycle completes, you should not have problems with pH dropping. This way, if you prefer, you can remove the coral.

 

[quicksandsecrets]

Yes you can find it in the LFS and you can leave it indefinitely. Put some in a nylon stocking and stick it in your filter, or you can add it in small amounts to your substrate. I recommend the nylon though, as when your cycle completes, you should not have problems with pH dropping. This way, if you prefer, you can remove the coral.

I picked up crushed coral last night, put a small amount in a mesh bag inside the filter. I will keep testing religiously to see if the pH levels out.

I did have a bizarre conversation with owner of the LFS, though.

• He first told me that I should be adding a buffer to my water every week, that pH will constantly fluctuate.
• He then said that I should have purchased "live" substrate, and I wouldn't be having this problem in the first place, because the generic gravel I am using (that he also sells) will never maintain a constant pH.
• He then told me that pH "never" drops during a cycle.
• He then told me that this is most likely due to the pH of my local tap water fluctuating (um, from 7.6 to 6.0 then back again? never mind that i have tested the tap water multiple time and it has always been 7.6?).
• He then proceeds to tell me what I am experiencing, just doesn't happen. "pH just doesn't ever drop that much". (It's not like the testing process is that difficult, three drops in a vial of water and shake it.)

I had to just walk away. I am relatively new to this, but everything he said contradicted things i have read on a number of websites and message boards, and he even seemed to change his story.....

 

[This Old Spouse]

Well, my friend, now you know why we recommend never heeding the advice of anyone in a LFS!! Glad you're on the forum ... you might get conflicting advice at times, but then someone will come right behind and straighten things out (usually!)

Cheers ... and keep us posted! Your experiences also help teach all the rest of us.

 

[CezzaXV]

pH "just doesn't drop like that"? Wanna come over and tell that to my tank?

If nobody else has by the time I get home to my proper keyboard, I'll give you the full explanation of fluctuating pH. Not gonna type it on my iPhone.

 

[quicksandsecrets]

If nobody else has by the time I get home to my proper keyboard, I'll give you the full explanation of fluctuating pH. Not gonna type it on my iPhone.

Thanks, I look forward to hearing what you have to say. I have found bits and pieces in different threads and other websites, but I am having a hard time understanding how pH and ammonia are connected.

 

[The Taffy Apple]

If nobody else has by the time I get home to my proper keyboard, I'll give you the full explanation of fluctuating pH. Not gonna type it on my iPhone.

Thanks, I look forward to hearing what you have to say. I have found bits and pieces in different threads and other websites, but I am having a hard time understanding how pH and ammonia are connected.

Waterdrop is your man...when i was suffering from my PH crashes during my fishless cycle i dropped him a quick PM, he was kind enough to reply with it all in easy to understand terms..give it a try

Terry.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

If nobody else has by the time I get home to my proper keyboard, I'll give you the full explanation of fluctuating pH. Not gonna type it on my iPhone.

Thanks, I look forward to hearing what you have to say. I have found bits and pieces in different threads and other websites, but I am having a hard time understanding how pH and ammonia are connected.

It's not that complicated really. It all comes down to the entire nitrogen cycle. Ammonia (NH3) is produced by the fish as waste. The NH3 is "processed" by the A-bacs (ammonia processing bacteria such as nitrosomonas) into a compound containing nitrite (NO2). The nitrite is then processed by the N-bacs (nitrite processing bacteria such as nitrosoma) into a compound containing nitrate (NO3). As the nitrate in your tank builds up, usually as nitric ACID (HNO3), which will lower the pH of the water in your tank once the buffering capacity of the water has been reached.

Hence, a pH crash during a cycle. Normally when you have a tank fully up and running, you will change the water every week or so to keep the nitrates under control. However, during a cycle the water isn't changed, so the nitrates can just build up out of control.