Should I leave plants out of a cycling tank?

[metropolis93fan]

I'm not brand new to cycling tanks, but I've never included live plants in a set-up before my current shrimp tank, and that was AFTER I had cycled it. I definitely plan on adding a bunch of red root floaters and SOME others... haven't decided on the planted ones, yet. My concern is whether putting my floaters in the tank while doing a normal fishless cycle would deplete the ammonia, nitrites, etc. prematurely and it thus wouldn't actually cycle. It won't be heavily planted enough to do a plant-in cycle... I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks!

 

[Essjay]

If there won't be enough plants to do a plant cycle, leave the plants out till the fishless cycle is finished.
Fish make ammonia in tiny amounts 24 hours a day. With fishless cycling, the same amount is added but in a single dose so the level is high just after it is added which can damage some plants.

 

[metropolis93fan]

If there won't be enough plants to do a plant cycle, leave the plants out till the fishless cycle is finished.
Fish make ammonia in tiny amounts 24 hours a day. With fishless cycling, the same amount is added but in a single dose so the level is high just after it is added which can damage some plants.

Thanks! Appreciate it. I'm so excited to have my second shrimp tank. They are so much fun to watch... blue velvets. I'm HOPING to have everything set up tomorrow... Still have to rinse the gravel (thankfully it's only a 5 gallon tank!) then do a water change on the betta from whose tank I'm taking a couple pieces of decor as well as some gravel to help seed... (and some filter media). I was going to use the other shrimp tank for that but a) I have babies in there and b) I unfortunately have found myself to be the "proud" owner of limpets and don't want to transplant any in the new tank. (I left a snowflake in there even after I came back from an extended parental stay after which I first noticed them). NOt sure how they got there in the first place... The newest plant was the floaters and my betta has those too... no limpets. the other two.... 6-9 months ago. Heh. Frustrating. But at least harmless. But I would rather not have white dots on my new tank.

 

[Essjay]

Don't bother with water from the betta's tank, it doesn't hold any bacteria. But the filter media does.

I've got limpets in my shrimp tank, but I use totally separate equipment on my two tanks and there's none in my main tank. Yet.

 

[metropolis93fan]

Don't bother with water from the betta's tank, it doesn't hold any bacteria. But the filter media does.

I've got limpets in my shrimp tank, but I use totally separate equipment on my two tanks and there's none in my main tank. Yet.

Oh no... sorry... wasn't clear. Wasn't going to add water... I know that's not helpful. But I'm going to swap out some gravel (same kind) with new and add some of his gravel because it DOES contain some bacteria... And I need the water level lower to get down into the gravel without making a mess! I'll also be cutting the sponges to each filter (HOB) in half... so half new, half old in each, and I have some batting in there I'll put in the new filter. It's the same filter type in each tank. And I'm glad I'm not the only shrimp owner with limpets! Took forever to figure out what they were. Could definitely be worse... But still unsightly.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Here is the thing you rarely read on this topic. Cycling is a term taken from a naturally occuring process in nature- the nitrogen cycle, However, when we use the term cycling for a tank, we specifically mean a process for handling the toxic ammonia created by our fish and any organic matter being broken down- fish poop, uneaten food, dead leaves etc.

We cycle a tank to prepare it to handle the ammonia we know will be created when we get it going. Well plants use ammonia, as ammonium which is a dominant form of ammonia n water. When we test we normally see results for total ammonia which measure both the ammonia and the ammonium.

When there are no live plants and little or no algae (yes this uses ammonia as well), all of the ammonia created is handled by microorganisms. But when we begin to add live plants to a tan]bk, they will be using some to most of the ammonia and will therefore reduce how much bacteria is needed and will colonize. However, no matter how many plants one has in a tank, there will still be some of the bacteria. In fact it lives on the leaves and stems of the plants. So when we add live plants to a tank we are also adding some amount of bacteria as well.

edited for typos.spelling

 

[10 Tanks]

I'm not brand new to cycling tanks, but I've never included live plants in a set-up before my current shrimp tank, and that was AFTER I had cycled it. I definitely plan on adding a bunch of red root floaters and SOME others... haven't decided on the planted ones, yet. My concern is whether putting my floaters in the tank while doing a normal fishless cycle would deplete the ammonia, nitrites, etc. prematurely and it thus wouldn't actually cycle. It won't be heavily planted enough to do a plant-in cycle... I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks!

Hello metro. Aquatic plants won't make much of a difference in the cycling process. The root systems aren't robust enough to take in more than a little nitrogen. They'll look nice in the tank while it's cycling though.

10 Tanks (Now 11)

 

[sharkweek178]

If there won't be enough plants to do a plant cycle, leave the plants out till the fishless cycle is finished.
Fish make ammonia in tiny amounts 24 hours a day. With fishless cycling, the same amount is added but in a single dose so the level is high just after it is added which can damage some plants.

Could you water the ammonia down and spread that out over the day to keep from damaging the plants?

 

[Essjay]

For a fishless cycle, you'd still need to add enough ammonia to make 3 ppm on the first day. If you could add it a drop every few minutes over 24 hours, that would work, but not many of us have the equipment or patience to do that.

 

[Byron]

As @Essjay mentioned, it is not advisable to use artificial ammonia for cycling purposes if live plants are present. Walstad in her book cites various studies, and in brief some plants will die off with 1 ppm ammonia, others can tolerate much higher. I have never cycled an aquarium in 30 years, always had plants and always included substantial floating plants which have been termed "ammonia sinks" because of their rapid uptake of ammonia. But this is ammonia from fish respiration, decomposition of organics, etc, not dumping in toxic artificial ammonia.

 

[sharkweek178]

As @Essjay mentioned, it is not advisable to use artificial ammonia for cycling purposes if live plants are present. Walstad in her book cites various studies, and in brief some plants will die off with 1 ppm ammonia, others can tolerate much higher. I have never cycled an aquarium in 30 years, always had plants and always included substantial floating plants which have been termed "ammonia sinks" because of their rapid uptake of ammonia. But this is ammonia from fish respiration, decomposition of organics, etc, not dumping in toxic artificial ammonia.

I've been doing the same thing for my quarantine tanks. Throw in some salvinia minima and a clump of anacharis and haven't had a problem yet.

 

[Essjay]

I just quarantined 15 Microdevario kubotai with no mature media. All I used was rather a lot of red root floater from my main tank and 2 bunches of elodea (anacharis) bought at the same time as the fish.
I have to remove handfuls of red root floater from both my tanks at every weekly water change or the water surface would not be visible.