Several Different Fish Died Over Time - Something Fishy With My Tank

[sophos9]

Hi

Having introduced a number of fish over a good period of time, I'm really interested in understanding the losses. Now this is really bugging me as I'm really particular about everything and cannot figure this

Stock:
1 x American Flag Fish
6 x Ottos
4 x Clown Loaches
11 x Tetras
1 x RTBS
2 x BN Pleco
1 x Clown Pleco

Tank:
Juwel Vision 180l (40gal)
Ehiem external pro 2
Inline heater
Silver sand & silica grit substrate with laterite, tetra pro and JBL Proflora

Water Stats:
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrates - 5ppm
Phosphates <1ppm
PH 6.6 (from tap)
CO2 injected @ 30ppm
KH 3d
Temp 27c
1 x 50% water change & 2 x 20% per week

Dosing:
Water conditioned using Seachem Prime
2 x 4ml Flourish per week
KNO3 and K2SO4

So heres the thing, some time ago I added the clowns and tetras from my other tank along with the BN, clown and a Queen Arabesque (click here to read the thread). The QA was in prime condition, only thing I noticed was gasping (not at the surface) and some stringy white poo

Then bought another QA who died in exactly the same way, gasping and some long white poo (click here for thread)

I've bought 15 Cardinal tetras of which 5 remain (although I'm told its not rare to loose a load from new)

A week ago, I bought 2 Kribs (click here) and yesterday I noticed a loss of colour and their behaviour had become pretty slow... I've got them in my medic tank now and have lost 1, the other does not look good. Guess what, gasping and stringy white poo!

All the other fish are prime, extremely active, good colour, eating well, no gasping and poo is normal. When I say gasping I mean rapid gill/mouth movement, no other fish are showing this problem. plants pearl well and tank aireates over night

So to summarise, the issues with the fish dying *seem* to have something common,

Loss of activity/lethargic
Stringy white poo
Rapid 'gasping' gill/mouth movement
Lack of appetite

Please help!

 

[rdd1952]

I don't know a lot about diseases as I have been fortunate. You mentioned that the QAs and the other fish that died were gasping. Is there a chance that something has gone wrong with your CO2 injection and there isn't enough oxygen, even with the added oxygen? I would think that would affect them all though. Does your pH stay steady at 6.6 even with the CO2 injection and a low KH? You've probably already shought through all these things though.

You may get more answers in the Emergency section. I think Tolak and Wilder are generally very knowledgeble about diseases. It definitely sounds as if you have some type parasite or infection.

 

[sophos9]

Hi, thanks for the reply

I've got a live CO2 tester and repeatedly test PH (especially in the morning whilst setting up CO2 timings) to find what drop happened. The good news is with the timing I have on the CO2 I only experience about a 0.2 PH drop over night. If it was O2 hypoxia I'm sure I would see ALL fish gasping at the surface. Its so strange!

Thats what I think, some sort of parasite, but how come it only affect some fish and not others?

Will drop a x-link in that forum now, thanks!

 

[Tolak]

Sounds like an internal protizoan, start with Flubenol 15. If this is ineffective you will have to get dimetronidazole through a vetrinarian.

 

[sophos9]

Tolak, thanks for posting - could you help with some questions please?

• Not knowing anything about what you just said, is it likely that that the protizoan is sitting in my main tank waiting for for prey, if so I take it I will need to dose the entire tank?
• Why has this protizoan only affected 2 L260 Queen Arabesques (not the clown or BN plecos) and Kribs leaving the Clown loaches and other fishes alone?
• How is the protizoan introduced to the aquarium? (I feed a wide diet inc frozen bloodworm and brineshrimp)

Many thanks

 

[Tolak]

Internal protizoans such as spironucleus and hexamita are commonly found in the digestive tract of many fish, and normally pose no problem. There is a problem when the fish is weakened by stress, and these protizoans multiply to levels that affect the fish’s health. They are often passed from fish to fish by fecal matter, so lack of aquarium maintenance can contribute to this ailment.

I would not treat the entire tank, there is no reason to treat well fish.

 

[sophos9]

So they are not like the ich parasite which will spread through the tank? I certainly do not lack aquarium maintenance, ask the other half

I'm just afraid to add more fish now as it seems the same thing has happened too many times, I get the feeling that something is lurking in the tank?

I cannot get any Flubenol tonight, the Krib I don't think will make it through tonight (any tips?) What happens if I get some more Kribs and the same thing happens, what would I do then?

Cheers

 

[kuhliloacher]

I have been going through an almost identical situation. I was losing fish on average one a day. I kept my PH at 7.0 with Proper PH. I started to use Chemi-Pure in my filter and my PH dropped to 6.6, and I couldn't bring it back up to 7.0, even with Proper PH. I am not sure if the changing of the filter media contributed to this or not. I was previously just using carbon. My fish were dieng long before I changed over the filter media. I tested the water all the time, and everything came out normal. But my fish were still dieing. They would breathe rapidly and were very inactive. A few of my Panda Corys turned real dark in color and barely moved around. My serpaes recently started pooping white strings. These are both signs of an internal bacteria infection. So I removed the Chemi-Pure media from my filter and started treating the whole tank with Maracyn Plus. I dosed on the 1st, 3rd and 5th days. I just finished treatment yesterday after one week. I replaced my Chemi-Pure media. I lost a few fish during the first few days of treatment. But around the 5th day, all of my ailing fish were doing much better. They were eating and much more active. I have not lost a fish since. I'm just going to leave the PH alone. I think trying to alter it too much may have contributed to my problems, as someone else suggested on this forum. If you treat with a medication just complete the treatment, even if the fish are making an early recovery. I would try treating the whole tank for internal bacteria infections, with a complete treatment. It seemed to work well for me. I would suggest Marycyn Plus or PimaFix. Both are safe for loaches/catfish and are for bacterial infections, among many other things.

 

[sophos9]

Hey kuhliloacher, glad you got it sorted!

I feel happier now I've had it explained, I thought it was something more than a hypoxia thing. Just cannot help but think that I have something lurking in the tank as all the fish (I think apart from the cardinals) have had the same symptoms before they died...?

 

[rdd1952]

Kuhliloacher, your problems could have easily come from your attempts to alter the pH. Generally, the use of those products keeps the pH in constant swing. That is much more dificult on the fish than a pH that may be outside their optimal zone but is at least stable. Actually, a pH of 6.6 is well within the range of most loaches and corys. As a matter of fact, for panda corys, 7.0 is on the very high side of their optimal range. They would most likely prefer the 6.6. And for kuhli loaches (I guess that's what you have based on your name), 7.0 is on the high side for them too.

 

[sophos9]

I've just noticed that my Killifish (American Flag Fish) is doing red poo's, most probable as I gave them bloodworm last night however thought I would throw this observation up....

 

[Tolak]

A stable pH is much better for your fish than trying to alter tap water with chemicals. If you are trying to target a specific pH or hardness you are best off starting with ro water, and reconstituting.

I keep & breed various fish that supposedly like softer water with a lower pH. My pH is 7.7, with hard water. Keeping your water parameters stable is one of keys to maintaining fish health.

 

[sophos9]

Tolak, any hints on how to help the Krib? Cannot get any Flubenol until a day or so...

Can you confirm that this is not something that will lurk in your tank (like ich) and can you also confirm what I should do if I buy a couple more Kribs and the same happens?

Appreciate it!

 

[Tolak]

I have dealt with this dozens times with angels & other cichlids, as my setup is oriented towards breeding, mostly angels. I’ve bred kribs, have some apistogramma cacatuoides breeding atm, along with some corys. I’m sure there’s a few others I’ve bred that I’m forgetting, but I’m not about to dig through my fishroom logs at this time.

Breeding setups involve overstocking, overfeeding, and more water changes than you want to know about. You can check my sig for the tanks I have running right now, I don’t include the 2.5’s used for hatching & fry growout, as they change almost daily. Any time I have a fish showing these symptoms they go into their own tank, and get treated. Most recently was a 4 year old angel, male breeder that was starting to refuse food. He is fine, a few mature silvers went directly into the tank he came out of to try to get another pair going. These are adult silvers with a gold crown & a nice percentage of wild blood, not something normally found at your lfs. I wouldn’t take a chance like that with them, they are few & far between.

I have a word doc I did long ago, and I have copy & pasted that on this forum at least a dozen times for folks dealing with this in the US, where metronidazole is easily available;


This is what I do for angels, you may want to look into the maximum temp your fish can handle. Metro was originally designed for humans, the closer you can get the tank to 98.6F the better.

Put the angel in a quar tank, I usually use a 10 gallon. Increase the temp over a day or so to 90-94F. Treat daily with 40 mg/gallon metronidazole, with 50% water changes daily. If the fish isn't eating, don't feed for the first 3 days. After 3 days, get some frozen brine shrimp. Take a portion about the size of a few match heads, and sprinkle on some metro. You have to eyeball this one, make the shrimp look kind of like a tiny powdered donut. Once it thaws, mix it in & feed. Sometimes they still don't eat for a few days, but once they start to mouth the food & spit it out, the meds seem to get in their system real good. Continue medicating the water & food for 7-10 days.

Metronidazole is sold as flagyl, het-a-mit, and a few other names I can't recall offhand, used to treat hexamita & hole in the head. They usually suggest 20mg/gallon, this often isn't enough. Metro deteriorates in 8 hours, so you could do twice daily water changes. I've done this on the weekends when I have time.

I've also added epsom salt while using metro, this helps with any constipation issues, cleans out the digestive tract. I start with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water, increasing by 1 teaspoon daily for 2 more days to bring it up to 3 teaspoons per 10 gallons. You will have to adjust how much you use when doing water changes. You may want to give this a try.



I would start with the epsom salt, this keeps the digestive tract clean as the meds kill of the protizoans. If the digestive system is sluggish the dead & dying parasites can cause constipation.

 

[sophos9]

Thanks for your help, metronidazole is only available from Vets here

I'm about to order some Flubenol 15 on-line so should have it Tuesday. In the meantime, I guess I should just keep an eye on the tank and look for lack of eating, lathery. I've noticed the American Flag fish is a bit hyperactive and has been 'wiping' himself on plants in the tank... At the minute he is racing up and down the tank non stop, 4 poos have been all red