Serious Filter Recommendation Required

[george4]

HI , i currently have a 400 litre tank running two tetra tec ex1200 external filters. it has been running like this for over a year with no problems. This morning however i woke up to find that one of the filter had pissed a good few bucket loads of water over my carpet. the only place which a can see a leak coming from is the side clips which bolt the filter head to the body of the filter. My parents are going to kill me lol and this has made me loose faith in external filters. my problem is, with such a large tank, i feel i need an external filter to do the job properly . I am basically looking for your opinions on what i should do.. i have thrown the faulty filter away . should i get rif of the other one and just use internal filtration or i was perhaps thinkin about purchasing one massive reliable external filter, something like the fx5 , which i can have running on its own , thus reducing chance of leakage. any comments much appreciated ,, thanks

 

[Davo86]

Hi how old was the tetratec? and where was it leaking from? Tetratec are known for their general reliability and also great customer service so provided the filter was well maintained I'm pretty sure it was a one off, and the likelyhood of both filters leaking is going to be seriously low.

for a 400L tank you really need a filter that is capable of running 2000Litres per hour and currently with two EX1200 both running at 600lph each that gives you only 1200Litres per hour in total,

An FX5 would do the job as would a eheim pro 2 or 3 or the more cheaper option of running two eheim 2217 classics

 

[minxfishy]

Dont throw it away, contact TT who will be able to provide the parts needed to repair or replace the entire filter for you.

 

[rabbut]

Sounds like the main seal ring. I assume you did apply loob (Vaseline or similar) to the seal regularly yes? It's daft, but the only mention of that in the instructions is in the Troubleshooting section. Usualy, when you hear about that part going on a TT, it's because the user missed the loobing of the seal in the instructions as they diden't read the troubleshooting section. Loob is needed on any seal to prevent failure, as constant contact with water does eventually make the seal go hard and either snap or crack making a leak form, something that can be prevented by applying any oil based lubricant like Vaseline

If the filter is under 3 years old, as Minx says above, TT will repair/replace the filter for you so don't chuck it unless you have abused it

All the best
Rabbut

 

[bitteraspects]

It has been my experience over the years that tetratech is downright garbage and is priced accordingly. In the end you get what you pay for. These are just about one of the cheapest products on the market comparatively, and while they work fine for new and aspiring fish keepers, I would not suggest using them once you start getting bigger tanks and becoming more serious about fish husbandry.

When it comes to filtration, go with a reputable company such as hagen or fluval. You can't go wrong with these guys. The choice of pros for many years and with great reason.

As for hob filters. Ime there is none better then the aquaclear110 (formerly called the aquaclear500). After using many filters including tetratech, whisper, marineland, rena, resun, and many other hob filters, I have never looked back once I tried hagens aquaclear system. Not only is it superior in both mechanical and biological filtration, as well as many other key points I'd be glad to share with you later if you're interested (for the sake of keeping this short), but these filters will potentially outlive your fish. I have many of these running personally, the longest of which, has been running for 8 years and counting. While I thought this number was pretty impressive, especially considering I only had to replace the filter media once in this period, I have spoken to people have had their aquaclear500's running for 15 and up to 20 years.
In my time using these filters, I can count on one hand the number of complaints I've heard about them. And usually the only downside mentioned is the price. But considering reliability and that you don't pay for weekly replacement filter cartridges, you actually end up spending much less in the long run. Also, because its a hagen product, if your lfs carries eheim they can probably order them and replacement perts/media through their supplier. Definitely worth asking the lfs about.

When it comes to canisters, the fx5 reigns supreme. I have yet to come across a better canister, and I have used a few of he other large cans out there. But again, the price tag is the downside. An fx5 will substantially lighten the load in your tank and in your wallet. Lol. But I can personally say that it is one of the best investments I have made, and intend to make again and again.
Eheim also makes great, quality canisters. The U series and pro series are both very good. And again, its made by hagen so they should be available through your lfs.

I'm sure I missed a bunch of stuff, but my thumbs are getting tired. (Posting from my blackberry mobile phone). If you have any questions, or there is something else you'd like addressed, I'd be happy to help where I can.

-aspects

 

[rabbut]

It would appear you have got the "who owns who" in the fish keeping industory incorrect. I have to dissagree on a few points also...

It has been my experience over the years that tetratech is downright garbage and is priced accordingly. In the end you get what you pay for. These are just about one of the cheapest products on the market comparatively, and while they work fine for new and aspiring fish keepers, I would not suggest using them once you start getting bigger tanks and becoming more serious about fish husbandry.

It is my experience that Fluval exturnals are c?@#, and Tetratec's a good quality product, allong with the Rena's that you go on to bash later

When it comes to filtration, go with a reputable company such as hagen or fluval. You can't go wrong with these guys. The choice of pros for many years and with great reason.

Erm, Hagen own Fluval, so they are essentially one and the same Their internal filters are cracking. While many pro's do run their internal round my way, I notice many advise against getting their exturnal ranges.

As for hob filters. Ime there is none better then the aquaclear110 (formerly called the aquaclear500). After using many filters including tetratech, whisper, marineland, rena, resun, and many other hob filters, I have never looked back once I tried hagens aquaclear system. Not only is it superior in both mechanical and biological filtration, as well as many other key points I'd be glad to share with you later if you're interested (for the sake of keeping this short), but these filters will potentially outlive your fish. I have many of these running personally, the longest of which, has been running for 8 years and counting. While I thought this number was pretty impressive, especially considering I only had to replace the filter media once in this period, I have spoken to people have had their aquaclear500's running for 15 and up to 20 years.
In my time using these filters, I can count on one hand the number of complaints I've heard about them. And usually the only downside mentioned is the price. But considering reliability and that you don't pay for weekly replacement filter cartridges, you actually end up spending much less in the long run. Also, because its a hagen product, if your lfs carries eheim they can probably order them and replacement perts/media through their supplier. Definitely worth asking the lfs about.

HOB's, or the american deffinition of an exturnal are rarely used over here in the UK, and they haven't yet been discussed in this thread untill you raised the point in your last post. While the Aquaclears may be good (I don't know, they aren't available over here very often and spares are hard to come by if you do find one) a HOB is unlikely to be equivelant in Bio or Mech filtration to a canister (or an exturnal by the UK definition) as they aren't as large as a exturnal rated for the same size tank Also, any decent exturnal will outlive your fish (can't say that in many cases where you are using a Fluval exturnal)

It is my opinion that an Internal won't cope with a tank of over 50g.

When it comes to canisters, the fx5 reigns supreme. I have yet to come across a better canister, and I have used a few of he other large cans out there. But again, the price tag is the downside. An fx5 will substantially lighten the load in your tank and in your wallet. Lol. But I can personally say that it is one of the best investments I have made, and intend to make again and again.
Eheim also makes great, quality canisters. The U series and pro series are both very good. And again, its made by hagen so they should be available through your lfs.

Erm, Eheim are one of Hagen's biggest competitors, and Hagen DO NOT make the Eheim ranges. The FX5 may well lighten your wallet by a fair bit, but as canisters go, it's a budget filter. Sorry, but in the UK, it is dirt cheap when compaired to it's comparable compeeting counter parts. While it's mech filtation is good I am told, I note many have to resort to modifying them to get the performance. Not a sign of people happy with a product IMO... Also, I am told they have budget build quality, so how they will last I recon will not be well... The 04 series started to drop like flies after 3-4 years, the 05's are comming up to that and already look tired in many cases, so when the FX5 is say 8-10 years old, I may well say it's worth a poke, but Fluvals reputation alone is going to prevent me from buying one for now...

Now the new Fluval U series is made by Hagen, as Fluval is one of their companies, and does look like it's going to be another cracking product

All the best
Rabbut

 

[hollanda88]

Now the new Fluval U series is made by Hagen, as Fluval is one of their companies, and does look like it's going to be another cracking product

If your talking about the internal fluval U series i have had one for about a week now and i love it. But none of the internals will cope with bigger tanks, the Fluval U3 is up to 150L.

andrew

 

[bitteraspects]

Hahahah. Apparently you are confused. Ill cover your points this evening when I return home from work. And I will try to get you some pictures of media volume comparisons of a hob and a canister. Which by the way are both external filters "by american definition" as you so eloquently put it. But more on all this later.

 

[saltynay]

Possibly an oppurtunity to use my idea if you have an hour of free time. although I would reccomend you make it with several different tiles instead of one really long loop

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=277044

 

[rabbut]

Hahahah. Apparently you are confused. Ill cover your points this evening when I return home from work. And I will try to get you some pictures of media volume comparisons of a hob and a canister. Which by the way are both external filters "by american definition" as you so eloquently put it. But more on all this later.

Appologies on the definitions comment, it was not intended as an offence I just noted that many of the members here from America automatically assumed a HOB filter when us brits refured to our cans, so assumed there was a different mening to the word exturnal in the US when compaired to the UK for fishkeeping things

Eheim own Eheim, MP (the makers of Ecco filters) and Jager. If you have a link between Eheim and Hagen, no doubt you'll be posting it when you get to your normal computer, but I'd be interested to see it. I appreciate you don't want to be typing on a BlackBerry while at work I work in the trade however and hence have to be clued up on the who owns who part

The photo's of the HOB will be interesting admittedly

All the best
Rabbut

 

[three-fingers]

Hahahah. Apparently you are confused. Ill cover your points this evening when I return home from work. And I will try to get you some pictures of media volume comparisons of a hob and a canister. Which by the way are both external filters "by american definition" as you so eloquently put it. But more on all this later.

Now this is going to either be very funny, or mind blowing lol .

Looking forward to how this thread progresses lol.

To the OP: I would agree with everyone else who has said you should contact Tetra. I've heard about leaking issues on a few different forums and all cases I can recall Tetra customer support being very helpful. Would be interesting to know how old your canister was and how often you lubricated the O-ring.

If you want a new reliable external/s - go for the Eheim Classic series. Very simple filters built well, not much can go wrong with them. People have been using the design for 10+ years (much longer in fact, I believe, just can't be bothered digging up an exact span). They are not nearly as easy to maintain as modern design externals like Tetratecs, Eheim Pros and Fluval canisters, but not very hard either once you've got the hang of it.

An FX5 would do great too, but naturally, being more complicated (with microchips, self priming and other modern features) aren't going to be as reliable as the Classics.

With your Tetratec, it's either a case you you being very unlucky, or not maintaining it properly.
IMO it would be the same with pretty much all the other modern filters apart from the Eheim Pros (which you pay more for). But even the Eheim Pros seem to fail considerably more than the Classics.

 

[petertr]

Erm, Eheim are one of Hagen's biggest competitors, and Hagen DO NOT make the Eheim ranges. The FX5 may well lighten your wallet by a fair bit, but as canisters go, it's a budget filter. Sorry, but in the UK, it is dirt cheap when compaired to it's comparable compeeting counter parts. While it's mech filtation is good I am told, I note many have to resort to modifying them to get the performance. Not a sign of people happy with a product IMO... Also, I am told they have budget build quality, so how they will last I recon will not be well... The 04 series started to drop like flies after 3-4 years, the 05's are comming up to that and already look tired in many cases, so when the FX5 is say 8-10 years old, I may well say it's worth a poke, but Fluvals reputation alone is going to prevent me from buying one for now...

All the best
Rabbut

Hello again Rabbut - What are these FX5 mods you've heard of? You have me interested.


Although, I have no idea why, my FX5 is doing a truely wonderful job.

 

[george4]

Thank you very much for all advice , i will look in to the filters you have suggested .. The filter was only 6 months old, however i have to confess i had no idea about having to lubricate the sealent ring im sure it was not in the instructions but didnt look in the trouble shooting section. . it would appear that this was the problem , as its were the water was coming from, . Im sure tetra tec would be helpfull, but parents will never agree to an identical filter going back in my room , lol . . i brought it from living seas so it was only £60 so i think ill just scrap it .. im airing towards the fx5, seems to be a good price, would like to hear if any one has had any bad experiences with it , cos if i get another leak its bye bye fish lol ! thanks

 

[dave_oddballs]

i have an fx5 and it is brilliant, i got it from the living seas for just short of £140 when compared to the eheim is cheap. mine has extremely heavy loads and as long as they are maintained correctly will run perfectly!!i can not get at all why people put them down so much, it is very reliable, quiet, easy to maintain and capable of handling massive amounts of waste!
i'd say get 1!!
David

 

[bitteraspects]

finally the work day is over. now time for our little experiment. but before i get back into it, allow me to address some of the other users comments first, then well be off and away to the fun part.

petertr: commonly the output of the fx5 is modified to accommodate a large spraybar, usually of PVC or CPVC where applicable. i also modify the intake in a similar fashion. the fx5 comes with that multi directional output horn, and while it works just fine out of the box, a little diy on just about anything will make it better.
because the horns push water out in 2 different directions, it creates odd circulation in the tank, and the cycle gets a little screwy. however, the pump is still pulling enough water into the canister to suck up detrius and other floating debris in the tank. by removing the horns and adding a large spraybar (even larger then you would imagine would come with the filter), you can have the spraybar on one side of the tank, and the intake on the other (modified or not), creating a clean even cycle, and helping to push debris to the intake.

george4: the fx5 is a great filter. go ahead and search for reviews on in with google, and youll come up with a ton of rave reviews. i use them on many tanks, and they are awesome.
as far as lubricating the o-ring, that should not have been, nor do i believe it was the issue. as a hobbyist, you buy equipment hoping for it to work straight out of the box. you should not have to do any additional lubricating of parts or anything like that, imo. the problem is poor craftsmanship. many people have the same problem with tetratech filters, as well as marineland. this is not an isolated incident. best bet is to consider it a lesson learned, and move on. however, if youre not totally convinced, go ahead and get it repaired. who knows, it may fix the problem for good. i however do not reccomend their products.


................................................................................


now that that is out of the way. ...


first off, im not sure how you imagined the word external had a different meaning, considering it is an (american) english word. im pretty sure external means the same thing everywhere, considering it refers to the placement of the filter being outside of the tank.
internal - inside
external - outside
seems simple enough.

but grammatical and cultural errors aside, back to the experiment. also, forgive me for leaving out direct quotes from everyone. i hope to cover a lot, and the quotes will only cause more clutter, and ultimately, its just annoying. so im just going to paraphrase


first off, let me address the issue of "who owns who". this was a mistake on my part. i knew it was one or the other, and for some reason was pretty sure it was eheim. after you pointed it out i realized it was the other way around. while this was confusing to say the least, it was not the point. i clearly stated, and stand by that both are reputable companies, and produce quality products. my point was that if your lfs has access to hagen products (fluval, ect), they will be able to bring in an aquaclear filter for you, and replacement parts/media accordingly, should you be interested in giving one a try. sorry for the misunderstanding here, but regardless of the nomenclature error, my points were still valid.
also, this is not what i was referring to when i said i think youre confused. rather it was in regards to your statement about the ac110 not being able to stand up to a canister. that is where you are wrong. but i will cover that a little later.

moving on...


next point i wanted to cover was your mention of me bashing rena. i did no such thing. all i said is that i tried their products along with many others and eventually went with what worked the best comparatively. the rexa xp3(?) is a decent canister, and worked well from my experience, however, once you try a fx5 or eheim pro, i doubt even the competitive price tag on the rena will be enough to entice you to go back to it.


now were moving...

on to your comment about fluval externals being... whatever your bleeped out cuss word was supposed to represent. that is laughable at best. while the bigger pro models of eheims canisters do provide better biological filtration, and often have a higher percentage flow rate, when you compare the job to the price tag, it doesnt match up. the fluval is about half the price of a comperable pro model eheim canister (2080 pro3), but is not outshined in performance by that much of a margin. theyre both outstanding filters, however, the fx5 does pretty much the same job for half the cost.

still with me...

next. modification.
you are a bit misinformed about this part. while you seem to be under the impression that it needs to be modified to work, that is absolutely false. out of the box, it provides much better mech filtration then *any other canister. comaritive reviews have been done many times, and while the eheim counterparts will provide better biofiltration across the board, they are no match for the mech filtration of the fx5. and diy modifications only further widen the margin. (however, by doing similar modifications on an eheim, or any other canister/hob, you will achieve better results)

AND NOW THE GRAND FINALE...

on to a side by side comparison of a canister and a HOB. in regards to media volume and flow rate.
i didnt want to break down an fx5 just to pull out media, so i grabbed one of my eheim pro canisters i have lying around. so this will be the base of my comparison.

the canister is an eheim professional 2227 wet/dry canister. (rated for a 90g tank)
the HOB is the good ol aquaclear 110 (rated for 80-100g tanks)
the media in the canister is crushed coral.
the camera. my trusty blackberry storm i was posting from earlier. (i couldnt find the memory card for my camera, so this was my only other option. lol. please excuse the quality)

first, the bio media. the canister has 2 media trays which for our purposes are filled with crushed coral. this allows for maximum use of the media baskets on both the hob and the canister (also, it happens to be what was already in there). for the ease of returning the media to the canister, and for cleanliness, i lined the media basket in the ac110 with a plastic liner.

then opened the canister and pulled out the first basket of media to move it to the HOB. this is my first time actually testing this theory myself. up to this point it was just an educated guess. so im gonna go one at a time to see how much of the media exactly the HOB will hold. im sure it will be a lot considering.

first basket in. the hob is filled about half way. now for the second basket

well whattaya know... canister empty, hob filled. but does the lid fit back on?

indeed it does.

conclusion: the ac110 holds just as much media as a comparable canister rated for the same sized tank. looks like bio filtration is a tie.

how about mechanical filtration?
lets check the flowrate.

the eheim canister is rated at 227gph, while the ac110 is rated at 500gph. ultimately. higher flowrate = better mech filtration. but that could have been expected, as fluval is known for having great mech filtration.

conclusion: the ac110 has more then double the flowrate of the canister. mechanical filtration is a win for the HOB.

so. not only does the hob hold the same volume of media as a canister rated for the same sized tank, it provides better mechanical filtration. sorry buddy, your myth has been busted.

heres a little added bonus.

and now, one of the main deciding factors for most hobbyists. the price. while shopping around, you will probably find better deals on both, but for our comparison i went to theaquariumguys. common shop for online sales, and one that carries both.

eheim canister 312.99
aquaclear hob 89.99

now keep in mind, the canister has other goodies on it that will justify some of the price difference. it is afterall a much more involved piece of equipment, however, for our purposes, even with the advancements in the canister system, the price does not even come close to reflecting the price difference. while the eheim is on the far end of the spectrum, a comparable canister rated for a similar sized tank will still run you between $150 and $200, and will not provide any of the added benefits of the eheim canister, further proving my point.

.............................................................................


well that was fun, eh? i hope you all learned something new. i know i did. and in the end, thats what its all about.