School...

AilyNC

Fish Herder
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
1,894
Reaction score
2,413
Location
Ireland
I envy the US secular approach I have to say. I can't get access to multi denominational schooling. My kid is 2.5 and to start school in 2023 the list is already full in the only multi denominational school we have access to. About 98% of our public schools are religious denomination. 96% being Catholic. We have no non denominational schools as religion is a part of our curriculum. That means you can't really have education here without religion. You have a right to that so it's a weird place where you "opt" your child out. Depending on the school this might mean religion class is end of day so they leave early, or they go to another class during religion, or sit at the back of the room. Effectively we segregate children as young as 4 based on religion. This is public school so publicly funded. And even opting out you still have morning & lunch prayers, regularly masses to mark occasions & communion & confirmation. For most of second class (aged 8) they spend actual school time preparing for the religious ritual of communion.

Without debating religion - the issue is that we fail to provide proper access to education for children of non mainstream religions or no religion.

I grew up Mormon, very minority religion here. So my religious education was always at home & in Sunday school. It's bizarre that isn't the case for others and we allow religious ethos public schools that alienate non religious children & those of non Catholic faith.
 

The Lumpfish Guy

Fish Crazy
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
376
Reaction score
183
Without debating religion - the issue is that we fail to provide proper access to education for children of non mainstream religions or no religion.
In the UK a lot of Schools went for the Church of England school association for some extra financial reasons (don't know the ins and outs, might not even be true)

The issue is not access to non denominational schools (at least IMO) Its the lack of tolerance of other world views in certain schools, this can be any religion, denomination or non denominal

I moved around a lot in the UK and went to two Catholic schools (just because of location), ones was strict just catholic with no tolerance for any other world view.
The other had a great view towards minority beliefs (in this case Muslim and Hindu) where they acknowledged and supported their religious behaviours while not oppressing Catholicism on them. They even able to have the conversations about these world views in a constructive manor.
 

AilyNC

Fish Herder
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
1,894
Reaction score
2,413
Location
Ireland
In the UK a lot of Schools went for the Church of England school association for some extra financial reasons (don't know the ins and outs, might not even be true)

The issue is not access to non denominational schools (at least IMO) Its the lack of tolerance of other world views in certain schools, this can be any religion, denomination or non denominal

I moved around a lot in the UK and went to two Catholic schools (just because of location), ones was strict just catholic with no tolerance for any other world view.
The other had a great view towards minority beliefs (in this case Muslim and Hindu) where they acknowledged and supported their religious behaviours while not oppressing Catholicism on them. They even able to have the conversations about these world views in a constructive manor.
For me multidenominational or that accepting all faiths approach is already a compromise. Having access to non religious ethos schools particularly at primary level is important. We deny people the right to education free from religious indoctrination. That's a serious violation of our rights that the Irish government fail to address.
 

WhistlingBadger

Fish Addict
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
818
Reaction score
1,698
Location
Wind River Country, Wyoming
Yeah. I believe spiritual/religious/moral education is very important, but it belongs at home. It isn't the schools' job, and schools aren't very good at it. Both history and the Bible show that Governments make really lousy instruments of moral change. Unfortunately our country has so many families that are failing to teach their kids basic right and wrong that it often falls to schools to fill in the gap. Of course, we try, but we really can't.

I don't know how much to get into detail about the teaching of science, because I don't want this to turn into an argument about religions (including atheism). I do love discussing such things, but I find that public forums aren't a good place for it. PM me if you want to discuss it further.

I typed up one of my long-winded thoughts about all this, but no, for once I will show discretion. Don't expect that to become a habit. ha ha ha I will simply say that, in my understanding as a very well-read science enthusiast, most of what is taught about the origins of life and the cosmos is not science, but speculation in the service of a desired world-view.

I'll shut up now. :)
 

The Lumpfish Guy

Fish Crazy
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
376
Reaction score
183
For me multidenominational or that accepting all faiths approach is already a compromise. Having access to non religious ethos schools particularly at primary level is important. We deny people the right to education free from religious indoctrination. That's a serious violation of our rights that the Irish government fail to address.
While I see your point of view, our history to date is shaped by religion, and it is hard to take that out of how we have gotten to where we are today. I think that an exposure to religion in school is a good thing as these institutions old or new still shape the way people behave in todays society.
So much so that the only word used to describe people who do not believe in a religion is "someone who does not believe in a theology" Atheist
 

kwi

Fishaholic
Joined
Aug 27, 2020
Messages
646
Reaction score
930
Location
Aontroim
I envy the US secular approach I have to say. I can't get access to multi denominational schooling. My kid is 2.5 and to start school in 2023 the list is already full in the only multi denominational school we have access to. About 98% of our public schools are religious denomination. 96% being Catholic. We have no non denominational schools as religion is a part of our curriculum. That means you can't really have education here without religion. You have a right to that so it's a weird place where you "opt" your child out. Depending on the school this might mean religion class is end of day so they leave early, or they go to another class during religion, or sit at the back of the room. Effectively we segregate children as young as 4 based on religion. This is public school so publicly funded. And even opting out you still have morning & lunch prayers, regularly masses to mark occasions & communion & confirmation. For most of second class (aged 8) they spend actual school time preparing for the religious ritual of communion.

Without debating religion - the issue is that we fail to provide proper access to education for children of non mainstream religions or no religion.

I grew up Mormon, very minority religion here. So my religious education was always at home & in Sunday school. It's bizarre that isn't the case for others and we allow religious ethos public schools that alienate non religious children & those of non Catholic faith.
It's worse up here, though there are a few "integrated" schools about now.
I went to school in England and Religious Education was more about personal and social developement rather than actual religious instruction, we did cover major belief systems as well.
My dads last job was as an army recruitment officer and they weren't allowed in Catholic schools, despite my dad being the highest ranking catholic in the British Army serving in Northern Ireland at the time.
 

The Lumpfish Guy

Fish Crazy
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
376
Reaction score
183
went to school in England and Religious Education was more about personal and social developement rather than actual religious instruction, we did cover major belief systems as well
Maybe this is where the differing of opinion stems from
 

AilyNC

Fish Herder
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
1,894
Reaction score
2,413
Location
Ireland
While I see your point of view, our history to date is shaped by religion, and it is hard to take that out of how we have gotten to where we are today. I think that an exposure to religion in school is a good thing as these institutions old or new still shape the way people behave in todays society.
So much so that the only word used to describe people who do not believe in a religion is "someone who does not believe in a theology" Atheist
I think it has a place in sociology and history for sure but at second level not primary level.
 

AilyNC

Fish Herder
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
1,894
Reaction score
2,413
Location
Ireland
It's worse up here, though there are a few "integrated" schools about now.
I went to school in England and Religious Education was more about personal and social developement rather than actual religious instruction, we did cover major belief systems as well.
My dads last job was as an army recruitment officer and they weren't allowed in Catholic schools, despite my dad being the highest ranking catholic in the British Army serving in Northern Ireland at the time.
Lots of us in the south have grandparents who were part of the British Army. To ignore that is ridiculous. I've seen some awful stuff on the news about segregation and primary schools in the North.
 

kwi

Fishaholic
Joined
Aug 27, 2020
Messages
646
Reaction score
930
Location
Aontroim
Lots of us in the south have grandparents who were part of the British Army. To ignore that is ridiculous. I've seen some awful stuff on the news about segregation and primary schools in the North.
But one bit of good news is that Stephen Nolan, one of the top paid BBC presenters that most the licence fee payers have never heard off, has lost the "most listeners" for his radio show. He keeps driving the Them'uns and Us'uns narrative.

But yes, religious instruction should not be in schools, neither should £60 school blazers, uniforms yes, expensive uniforms no.
 
Top