Run Me Through Cleaning The Tank

[Liverbird36]

Just read the bit about the ammonia levels !!! that's shocking !!!

 

[JoshuaA]

Thanks Josh. and yes I did mean P@H; it's the only local store I have so have to ensure that when I go in there to buy anything, that i'm fully researched up. Al the fish in my local one look pretty sick too so not quite sure where to buy from. Have ample time as tank has a long way to go until it's cycled. Oh and thanks for your understanding.

You can do a simple search on google for fish stores in your area. With that search you will be able to look at the general reviews/ratings of what some people think. You can always phone up and ask them some simple questions about your cycle and see what they think. I've been to some 4/5 different stores in the last week trying to look for whom has the best and healthiest stock for our options in the upcoming weeks. However all stores will encounter problems and this has clearly become apparent. Though if you spot a dead fish I think its easy to assume that if the fish is down to its bone and flaking its been there some time.

What cheesed me off the most in the most recent visit to a LFS is the accusations she made towards me about my fishless cycle as being an old and oudated method. My apparent inability to read instructions of the back of a bottle (I claimed Tetra Safe Start has a low success rate). She claimed that the pH should be kept below 7 because Ammonium is made which is less toxic than Ammonia when the pH is below 7. I noticed various dead fish and some huge sized fish in undersized tanks. Although there wasn't any visible signs of illness in most tanks.

Edit: Remember stores are out to make money, not tell you to go home and wait a few weeks before buying any of their life stock. Although not all stores are as bad as others. I hear Maidenhead Aquatics is a great store, possibly you should check the site whether any of their stores are near you.

 

[Liverbird36]

With mine it depends on who's there on the day. I went back and complained about the state of my tank after the use of all those products and one said it's not possible whilst the other said that lowering ph is not recommended. I was scorned at by one for using ammonia and was told it's better to put 6 fish in. I did go into quite a lengthy discussion about cruelty etc but they weren't interested. One told me to put 10ml ammonia into my 64 ltr tank which also disrupted the cycle as had to empty tank. I do a lot of research on here and I know whose advice I can trust. I think the staff do a runner in the shop now when they see me coming.

 

[JoshuaA]

With mine it depends on who's there on the day. I went back and complained about the state of my tank after the use of all those products and one said it's not possible whilst the other said that lowering ph is not recommended. I was scorned at by one for using ammonia and was told it's better to put 6 fish in. I did go into quite a lengthy discussion about cruelty etc but they weren't interested. One told me to put 10ml ammonia into my 64 ltr tank which also disrupted the cycle as had to empty tank. I do a lot of research on here and I know whose advice I can trust. I think the staff do a runner in the shop now when they see me coming.

Haha, I'm not surprised they run and hide... I'm surprised they even suggested any amount of Ammonia to add, sometimes they do get mixed up and it is hard to remember the calculations of ammonia to water. I believe its something like at 9.5% ( common household concentration ) Ammonia its 0.5ml for every 10Litres of water to get it at 5ppm.

I get the same bull when I go against their advice of using 5/6 hardy fish to start the cycle, they blabber on about their "Experience" it clearly isn't "Good Experience" if they're willing to put multiple fishes lives at risk just to have fish in the tank during the cycle. To make it even worse they don't really suggest the best fish to start off with either.

 

[SlyPolak]

LMFAO !!! 99% of the bacteria is in the filter, the rest on gravel/rocks/ornaments etc... MAYBE .00001% in the water. WHY would you be offended?? He didnt "YELL" at you or anything!! I thought you were joking too..... YOU MADE MY DAY BY SAYING YOU WERE OFFENDED !! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Grow up

Lolwat?

Wat happund here guiz?
[/quote]





I just thought it was funny that he got SOO OFFENDED that you thought he was joking lol

 

[the biffster]

It's to do with not removing all the beneficial bacteria that may be present in the gravel as you've done a 2/3 water change.

I think you'll find the vast majority of it is in the filter media and using a gravel vac won't remove the bacteria as they're adhered to the surface quite strongly. On a major tank clean I would say that only gravel vacuum'in half would be counter productive towards the cause.

if that was the case I imagine a lot of people would be avoiding gravel vacs all together.

Yeah, because the gravel is where they all are...

I don't know whether this is sarcastic? I feel that it is...

I'm confused now as my LFS told me that it's the filter that hold the majority of the beneficial bacteria, and that the gravel needs to be thoroughly vacumed. That doing so will not upset the level of beneficial bacteria in the tank. Are they wrong in saying that ???

I would say they are correct in their advice. Also if it was the gravel that housed most the bacteria you would expect to see more of a pumice gravel substrate the best to buy due to the massively increase surface area for bacteria to cling onto. However don't get me wrong, bacteria will be present on your gravel but not much in comparison to the concentration of bacteria in your filter. I believe the idea of only vacuum'ing half your gravel is purely because by the time you have thoroughly vacuum'd half of your gravel the water level has decreased significantly that attempting to vacuum the other half isn't viable. ( Small tanks)

Furthermore if you are removing "grime" from the glass I would do that first before removing any water and give it time to settle down on the gravel, that way you can pick up the dirt that has come off with the gravel filter rather than trying to chase it around the tank with your vacuum hose.

cheers for that i thought for seventeen yrs i had been going wrong somewhere
Evan with undergravel filter i have always give them a good vacuuming with out any spikes or
any thing like that

 

[IAmATeaf]

Yeah, because the gravel is where they all are...

I never claimed that they were, I was answering what the reason for only cleaning half was and as far I know that is the reason.

 

[OldMan47]

The partial gravel clean is only important if you are maintaining a undergravel filter. In that case the gravel is the filter media and you don't want to disturb it all at once. For any other tank, a good thorough gravel clean is a good idea. Very few fish keepers will remove 2/3 of their water but it would do no harm. I only change about 1/3 of my water but manage to get a fairly thorough gravel cleaning done while doing that.

 

[nessar]

ah okay thanks guys looks like I was given (and then gave) the wrong advice about cleaning the gravel. I have to do 2/3 every 5 days to a week as my tank gets dirty pretty quick and my nitrate builds up fast which is a problem seeing as its nearly 50ppm to start with, plus the water goes yellowy.

 

[JoshuaA]

ah okay thanks guys looks like I was given (and then gave) the wrong advice about cleaning the gravel. I have to do 2/3 every 5 days to a week as my tank gets dirty pretty quick and my nitrate builds up fast which is a problem seeing as its nearly 50ppm to start with, plus the water goes yellowy.

Hopefully someone will give you some advice on helping reduce those Nitrates. All I know is you could just heavily plant your tank and it would help a little... maybe a small noticeable amount.

 

[OldMan47]

A rapid nitrate build is easy to explain. It means you are stocked at a much higher level than I would suggest. In my own tanks, nitrates build quite slowly. Nitrate build is easy to understand once you realize that each 1 ppm of ammonia created by your fish becomes 3.6 ppm of nitrates once the bacteria have processed it. Let's say you are stocked heavily enough to produce 2 ppm of ammonia in a day. That 2 ppm is adding 7.2 ppm of nitrates to the tank every day. In 5 days it adds about 36 ppm of nitrates to what you already had. If you do a 2/3 water change, you remove what amounts to 34 ppm of the 50 you started with. If anything I would expect a very slow rise in nitrates even with a 2/3 water change every 5 days if you have that much stock.

You will notice that nowhere in this did I talk about filter size. I made the assumption that whatever filter you have, it is big enough to handle all of your biological load.