Removing stubborn algae from white gravel

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I'm having trouble balancing algae growth in my low tech tank. Since it's a guppy tank, the stocking level varies, and it's well planted. I haven't yet got the hang of balancing light and ferts (including the changing bioload). I don't even really know where you're meant to start to ensure you have a good balance! I was focused at first on making sure my water parameters were good, and stable, and that I had a good amount of growing plants in there. The water parameters have been been very stable, now I'd like to get a balance going so my plants thrive, and there is some algae, but not to the level it is right now.

I don't mind some algae. Since I have otos and shrimp in there, I was encouraging and leaving a good amount of algae for them. I didn't want them to starve, and I wouldn't mind having a proper algae wall on the back pane, they can look great. But, the gravel is getting to me. There's just too much persistent algae that doesn't come off very easily at all, the otos and shrimp don't seem to be removing it, the gravel vac doesn't touch it. I used excel before and that did great job, but was told to stop that for now, and there seems to be debate whether it's safe for tanks or not, given how nasty the stuff is. I also don't want to eradicate algae completely, for the above reasons, just knock it back to a less unsightly level.

I'm tempted to remove the worst affected areas of gravel, and soak them in excel, then clean it well and air dry before returning to the tank. I don't think that would be a problem, would it?

I'm having to strip down my tanks anyway to move them, but for now,

 

[PheonixKingZ]

First off, I don’t suggest having white substrate. It stresses the fish out and can sometimes blind them temporarily.

How many hours a day do you keep the light on for? Do you dose fertilizers?

 

[Byron]

I'm tempted to remove the worst affected areas of gravel, and soak them in excel, then clean it well and air dry before returning to the tank. I don't think that would be a problem, would it?

More of a waste of time than a problem, though. If the cause is not rectified, "problem" algae will continue no matter what you do. I suspect it is brush/beard algae; nothing suited to this sized tank will touch it. Like all problem algae, it is caused by an imbalance of light/nutrients. Tweaking the balance will deal with it.

Light is the first factor and often the actual problem. White substrates reflect light which makes this even more difficult (and, BTW, fish do not appreciate white down there...would you consider changing it? Another topic, but a serious one for fish). The intensity of the light, and the spectrum, then the duration factor in.

Do you have any data on the light? And are you using any plant additives?

Excel is a dangerous toxic disinfectant (it contains glutaraldehyde) so I would not use it. Adding it to the tank (some do as a so-called liquid carbon supplement) is obviously very dangerous, but while using it externally might be somewhat safer, it really isn't worth it as the algae will come back.

 

[mbsqw1d]

I think even if the algae has died, on some porous surfaces it can 'stain' and only manual cleaning will remove it. Do you have any snails?

also.. swap it out for sand

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

First off, I don’t suggest having white substrate. It stresses the fish out and can sometimes blind them temporarily.

How many hours a day do you keep the light on for? Do you dose fertilizers?

Allow me to rephrase. I have lighter coloured, natural stone substrate, featuring greys, browns, yellows, reds, and some pale dull white, smattered with areas of river rocks and indian almond leaves, covered with dense low planting, and shielded from light reflections by a canopy of waterlily pads and dwarf water lettuce.Not the brilliant, reflecting white of snow white sand (although I love the look of some less brilliant white sands).

 

[Retired Viking]

I stay away from Excel too, I use flourish comp. I have had this before and adjusted my lighting which did help. I also have pulled out the affected gravel and gave it a good wash.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

First off, I don’t suggest having white substrate. It stresses the fish out and can sometimes blind them temporarily.

How many hours a day do you keep the light on for? Do you dose fertilizers?

I was leaving the light on for about ten hours a day, have made sure to only leave it on for eight hours a day this week. Haven't really got into dosing fertilisers, placed root tabs in the gravel but not for the last two months, have used TetraMin Monthly twice, but I also do water changes 1-2 times a week, and never accounted for those in redosing, so there probably wasn't enough there.

More of a waste of time than a problem, though. If the cause is not rectified, "problem" algae will continue no matter what you do. I suspect it is brush/beard algae; nothing suited to this sized tank will touch it. Like all problem algae, it is caused by an imbalance of light/nutrients. Tweaking the balance will deal with it.

Light is the first factor and often the actual problem. White substrates reflect light which makes this even more difficult (and, BTW, fish do not appreciate white down there...would you consider changing it? Another topic, but a serious one for fish). The intensity of the light, and the spectrum, then the duration factor in.

Do you have any data on the light? And are you using any plant additives?

Excel is a dangerous toxic disinfectant (it contains glutaraldehyde) so I would not use it. Adding it to the tank (some do as a so-called liquid carbon supplement) is obviously very dangerous, but while using it externally might be somewhat safer, it really isn't worth it as the algae will come back.

Thank you for taking the time to help me, it's appreciated!

I don't think it's brush or beard algae, it isn't 'fluffy' like that, I think it's green spot algae, many tiny little dots on the glass and gravel, very hard to remove. Having said that, there is a soft fuzzy algae on my older sword leaves, stubborn to remove, I've resorted to just trimming those outer leaves off before. So that probably IS brush or beard algae... Also some hair algae in there... man, I have a lot of algae, now I'm writing all this out! But I'm okay with manually removing the hair algae. You're also very right that cleaning those bits of gravel won't solve the problem, and it's time to get to the root cause. My big concern though is what my shrimp and otos will eat if all of it goes away.

I will go and check the light and see what details I can find, and add it to the thread.

I'm very open to switching substrates, especially since I'm going to need to empty the tank completely to move it before setting up the soft water tank for the otos to move into. I like the natural looking substrates, sand, some plant ones. Having one tank with a lighter colour would be nice, so they're not all the same looking, but would want to with an off white, honey type of colour again, a more natural light colour, with the right shading and things, if that would be okay for fish? If it isn't, then black it is.

I think even if the algae has died, on some porous surfaces it can 'stain' and only manual cleaning will remove it. Do you have any snails?

also.. swap it out for sand

I do really like the look of sand, and have a bag I was given with a tank that I wanted to use... but it's an off-white...

Only a few pest snails in there, tiny ones. No nerites or anything.

Since I only recently cut the light period from 10 hours to eight, do I wait for a while and see how that affects the algae? How long do I want before trying something else?

 

[Byron]

I took "white" as white, so that is one issue solved if it is "natural" which is what I've always had, until my dark grey sand anyway. A photo of the algae on the gravel and on the plants would help us with ID. There is more than one type of brush/beard algae, it is the most common "problem" algae, and I have battled it a few times but not for about five or six years now. Once I got my light/nutrients balanced, end of problem algae. Even the increased brighter and longer daylight in summer months coming through windows with blinds closed can affect algae in a fish tank.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I think even if the algae has died, on some porous surfaces it can 'stain' and only manual cleaning will remove it. Do you have any snails?

also.. swap it out for sand

I did just see you recommend TNC labs lite in another thread, added it to my amazon cart for when the TetraMin stuff I have runs out. Do you use root tabs as well?

 

[mbsqw1d]

I'm really impatient with aquariums haha, i think us humans are used to things happening in an instant and that just doesnt happen in the tank but I am slowly learning to let things adapt to whatever changes I make. If you've changed the photoperiod then I'd stick to that for a few weeks at least and check where the alage is up to - theres also the fish's circadian rhythm to consider.

Do you use root tabs as well?

Yes, got some of TNC's tabs too! Big fan of TNC lol

 

[seangee]

When I start a new tank I always start on a low duration (6 hours). Then every 2 or 3 days I increase it by half an hour if I have seen no algae. The first time I see algae on the glass I turn it back to the last setting. This is usually sufficient to ensure that initially I only get enough visible algae on the glass to require cleaning once a week. As the plants grow in this stops being neccessary.

If you are seeing algae at 6 hours your light is too bright. Of course this is an oversimplified generalisation as light is not the only factor. But it works for me.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I took "white" as white, so that is one issue solved if it is "natural" which is what I've always had, until my dark grey sand anyway. A photo of the algae on the gravel and on the plants would help us with ID. There is more than one type of brush/beard algae, it is the most common "problem" algae, and I have battled it a few times but not for about five or six years now. Once I got my light/nutrients balanced, end of problem algae. Even the increased brighter and longer daylight in summer months coming through windows with blinds closed can affect algae in a fish tank.

True, I did say white, my apologies! I just wasn't sure what else to call it, just that the algae shows up well on it, and makes the tank look neglected.
So the light natural stone coloured substrates with appropriate shading are okay, as long as it isn't those horrible brilliant bleached white sand/stones? That would be good because I like the look of some of them, and have some light coloured sand with darker flecks in it, plus like the contrast of different substrates in different tanks. But what is best for the fish takes priority over design choices every time.
I will snap some photos now, and get the details for the light on the tank.

If we manage to get rid of this algae though, in general, what about the otos and shrimp? I do feed them shrimp food/algae wafers/veggies of course, but I know they graze constantly, and want an established tank for those reasons. Since I have seven otos in addition to all those shimp, I worry about them not finding enough grazing. Which is why I had a longer light period than I should have. I know that clearly I've taken that too far! Is it possible to let enough of the 'right' algae continue growing, while also not getting out of control?

 

[mbsqw1d]

I was reading elsewhere earlier about growing green algae to feed daphnia, and it seems to make sense that a similar approach could be used for otos.
Take some pebbles and place them in a clear container of tank water and add small amount of ferts and leave in sunlight. When algae has grown on the pebbles, place them back in the tank for the otos. You could rotate a set of pebbles to keep the algae food available.
This way you have control of the algae you introduce to the tank, meanwhile take steps to clear your tank of all other algae. Hopefully the shrimp will be ok with pellets

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

When I start a new tank I always start on a low duration (6 hours). Then every 2 or 3 days I increase it by half an hour if I have seen no algae. The first time I see algae on the glass I turn it back to the last setting. This is usually sufficient to ensure that initially I only get enough visible algae on the glass to require cleaning once a week. As the plants grow in this stops being neccessary.

If you are seeing algae at 6 hours your light is too bright. Of course this is an oversimplified generalisation as light is not the only factor. But it works for me.

That does seem a sensible plan! I would like to try that, but concerned for shrimp and otos.
I'm getting a little stressed about this tank rearranging set up, the plan to move the otos into a softer water tank. I have bought another tank, moved my quarantine tank to a temporary spot so that I can empty the guppy/oto/shrimp tank and move it (needs a waterproof liner placing underneath, and need to shuffle some things to make space for third tank, so whole thing has to be emptied). This would be a great chance to reset the tank, replace the substrate, manually remove a lot of the algae, especially the hair and potential brush/beard, and then start as if it's new cycled tank, with a six hour photo period.

On the other hand, the new tanks are clean. Have used filters so cycling isn't a concern, but if I'm transferring plants, will that be enough for the shrimp and otos to be considered an established tank? But if I remove all the algae from the plants, the only established biofilm and algae for them will be from a piece of driftwood and some river stones.
Not sure what to do for the best.

I was reading elsewhere earlier about growing green algae to feed daphnia, and it seems to make sense that a similar approach could be used for otos.
Take some pebbles and place them in a clear container of tank water and add small amount of ferts and leave in sunlight. When algae has grown on the pebbles, place them back in the tank for the otos. You could rotate a set of pebbles to keep the algae food available.
This way you have control of the algae you introduce to the tank, meanwhile take steps to clear your tank of all other algae. Hopefully the shrimp will be ok with pellets

You're right, I'd forgotten that tip! The otos and shrimp do take the extra food I offer them, so not really concerned that they would starve, more than they would be stressed and perhaps lose condition if they don't have the constant grazing that an established tank gives. But the rock thing is brilliant - I could even use this algae coated substrate that I was complaining about! Put some on a plate or bowl, leave it for them to graze, swap out when needed, then remove once tank is more established.

You guys are the best. Having somewhere to get advice and bounce ideas off of other fish keepers is what I really, really needed.

 

[seangee]

I was reading elsewhere earlier about growing green algae to feed daphnia, and it seems to make sense that a similar approach could be used for otos.

Otos are great at dealing with green algae. But in an established tank it should not be neccessary to add any. Much of the algae and they eat is not visible to us. The reason it is not recommended to put them in an immature tank is to allow the growth of biofilm which is what they feed off- it doesn't have to be green.