Removing stubborn algae from white gravel

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Does the light straddle the sides of the tank or does it have sucker cups? And is it cylindrical or .. erm, straight!?

lol, I love your descriptions Yes, LED lights, not the old fashioned tubes. Flat panels, one has light and blue lights, one has red (different tanks) and I think the one on this tank in question has the red bulbs, and a better quality light to my eyes, than the other one without red bulbs. They were cheap lights on Amazon, will try to find them

 

[seangee]

Do you mean timers like these?

If your lights have the right connectors you could use these https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B082YVZ7CR/?tag=

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Found it! This is the light I use on this tank with the algae https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07JNKNQ1V/?tag=

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Gotta warn you though.. If I have to replace the lights, I will cry.

 

[seangee]

In that case you would need this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07K6H6CB5/?tag=.
It won't control the blue light (you would just set it on white), but it does give you a 15 minute sunrise and sunset where it gradually turns on and dims the light. I have one on two of my tanks.

 

[Byron]

Found it! This is the light I use on this tank with the algae https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07JNKNQ1V/?tag=

I cannot comment on the intensity (brightness), but in the specs it has 7500K as the spectrum. That is a tad high in the blue, and blue will promote algae more, so this might be something? I will bow to the expertise of the LED folks, of whom I certainly am not one.

 

[mbsqw1d]

I cannot comment on the intensity (brightness), but in the specs it has 7500K as the spectrum. That is a tad high in the blue, and blue will promote algae more, so this might be something? I will bow to the expertise of the LED folks, of whom I certainly am not one.

Yes, probably didn't have plants in mind when they designed it as it would have 7 x red and 2 x blue as opposed to the other way round.

@AdoraBelle Dearheart you could use an old school timer socket with it whilst leaving it switched to the 'all lights on' setting. To be honest I think the 'night time light' feature on alot of these (where people leave a blue light on all night) is likely not going to do any good.

 

[Byron]

Do you mean timers like these?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B083DLL3J2/?tag=

Yes. I prefer the digital timers (there are some further down that page linked) because in a power outage they have a built in energy cell that keeps the settings and the true current time for some period (I think mine are 48 hours) so you don't need to reset them or worry the lights will come on in the middle of the night when power is restored.

On the light settings, I would have the brightest/whitest light on for say 7 hours, but the before and after reduced light I would limit to 30 minutes or 60 max. The room must have light when the fish tank light comes on and goes off too, so it is not occurring during darkness which severely stresses fish. My tanks now come on at 10 am when there is good daylight filtered through the blinds into the room, and off at 5 pm when there is the same. And the fish must have a period of several hours of total and complete blackness, no room light, nothing. This replicates the tropics where every day of the year is the same, with say 10 hours of light, same of dark, and the dusk/dawn in between.

Have another dumb question, and I feel like a complete idiot asking this, but what exactly do you mean when you say "organics"? Specifically, in reference to aquariums. My mind instantly goes to decaying plant matter and fish poop, and the different bacteria that would be involved in the process, is that what you mean? I've read about decaying mulm and plant matter causing higher nitrate levels, and I do gravel vac and remove dead leaves when I find them. I figured since my nitrates never get high, that I was doing a good enough job, even if things weren't as spotless as I would like. But I don't remove every leaf that is beginning to look bad, and my water lettuce has gone through phases of boom and bust. When it's struggled, it has shed a lot of leaves that just sort of melt into the water, and there is nearly always a yellowing older leaf or two on the largest, oldest plants. Right now the plants are big and healthy, and I throw away handfuls of it most weeks. The green slime did appear on the surface when the water lettuce wasn't doing well, so is that why it appeared on the surface, but not in sheets anywhere else? Decaying floating plants, directly under the light, but not a lot of decaying plants below the surface. Different things are clicking into place and making sense now!

Organics includes all plant and animal matter that is now dead. Fish excrement, dead plant leaves, dead fish, dead snails/shrimps, decomposed fish food, etc. Most of this accumulates in the substrate and many species of bacteria (different from the nitrifiers) break it down. Ammonia is produced naturally, but also a lot of CO2. All of this feeds the plants, and the CO2 from the organics is considerably more than what comes from respiration of fish, plants and bacteria. The brown sludge that accumulates in filters, in filter hoses, in the substrate--this is decaying organic matter. Kept in check it can provide excellent food for plants, but it can easily increase to the point where it then feeds algae and cyanobacteria.

Nitrates sometimes rise indicative of increasing organics, but not always, depending upon thee system. My tanks have run in the 0-5 ppm range (API test) nitrate for over 10 years now, except for one: I had an organics bloom in my 90g tank a few years ago, and it was a mess, and nitrate was in the 5-10 ppm range. I never did track down the cause, but it persisted for three years until I tore the tank down last year when I moved. Some of the wood and plants and the few fish I kept from this tank went into a 33g, and within a few months, the organics exploded in that tank. I'm wondering if it was one of the chunks of wood. I tore this tank down too, and chucked the wood just in case.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

In that case you would need this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07K6H6CB5/?tag=.
It won't control the blue light (you would just set it on white), but it does give you a 15 minute sunrise and sunset where it gradually turns on and dims the light. I have one on two of my tanks.

Oh, so that's what those connectors on the lights are for! Thank you for finding these, they're not a scary expensive gadget either

@mbsqw1d , Thank you. You seem like a plant person who knows a lot about lights! I will be consulting you about red/blue lights for plants when I reach the point of replacing the lights, or windup getting yet another tank, lol. Or decide I absolutely need more growth from my plants. I think I'd like to go with the dimmer option. A little more expensive than the on/off one, but still not expensive, and the fish having that gradual dimming seems for the best.

I'm not worried about the blue light setting, I only use that to try to give my fish the cue that it's morning/night, rather than abruptly switching the full lights on or off and startling them. I don't care about seeing the tank under that light setting. A sunrise/sunset dimmer would be so much nicer, for me, and probably for the fish. I never leave the lights turned on overnight. That strikes me as something for the human, because they think it looks cool, rather than for the fish.

I cannot comment on the intensity (brightness), but in the specs it has 7500K as the spectrum. That is a tad high in the blue, and blue will promote algae more, so this might be something? I will bow to the expertise of the LED folks, of whom I certainly am not one.

I am most certainly not one either! I tried reading about what lights are good for plants, quickly got completely lost and overwhelmed with information, and only remembered something about red lights being good for plant growth, so ordered this one since it was affordable and mentioned red bulbs. I just hoped it would be good enough for my first tank, and reasonable plant growth. But it will be annoying if it turns out to be better for growing algae than plants!
Saying that, my plants have done pretty well, I can't complain about their growth. My leaving the lights on for ten hours a day, not doing a good enough job maintaining the plants, and not dismantling the canister filter often enough is probably contributing to the algae a lot more than the blue bulbs, even if they helped.

 

[Byron]

Give the light a chance, at 7 hours, timed. Might work out fine. Removing organics/nutrients will starve the algae too. Don't overfeed fish (or plants); what goes in fish must come out, and they do not need the amount of food most manufacturers advise. Try what can be easily done before spending more money!

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Give the light a chance, at 7 hours, timed. Might work out fine. Removing organics/nutrients will starve the algae too. Don't overfeed fish (or plants); what goes in fish must come out, and they do not need the amount of food most manufacturers advise. Try what can be easily done before spending more money!

Will do! I'm all for trying the simple things first before jumping to throwing money at it. I'll be emptying the tank this week sometime, so will basically be starting it over again, although without having to cycle it. Hopefully a combo of reducing the lights and following the routine you laid, and me being more on top of plant care and filter maintenance, this won't happen again! Hopefully...

I've been picking all of your brains not to prevent tearing this one down, but to try to understand more about what's happening in there and why, so I can do better at balancing it once it's all assembled again. Although some algae is bound to transfer to the new tanks on the plants, will just try to keep it in check this time.

As an aside, I am not looking forward to having to catch seven otos and all of those shrimp... wish me luck.

When you say you had an organics bloom, since that doesn't show up on tests, how do you know that that's happening? The increase in algae, or the cyanobacteria?

 

[Byron]

Will do! I'm all for trying the simple things first before jumping to throwing money at it. I'll be emptying the tank this week sometime, so will basically be starting it over again, although without having to cycle it. Hopefully a combo of reducing the lights and following the routine you laid, and me being more on top of plant care and filter maintenance, this won't happen again! Hopefully...

I've been picking all of your brains not to prevent tearing this one down, but to try to understand more about what's happening in there and why, so I can do better at balancing it once it's all assembled again. Although some algae is bound to transfer to the new tanks on the plants, will just try to keep it in check this time.

As an aside, I am not looking forward to having to catch seven otos and all of those shrimp... wish me luck.

When you say you had an organics bloom, since that doesn't show up on tests, how do you know that that's happening? The increase in algae, or the cyanobacteria?

Neither. The tank became cloudy, and remained so for three years. I tested all I could, the fish load was minimal for the tank, the plants were thriving...but this brown gunk collected on the roots of floating plants, and brown organic matter was everywhere. I discussed this with my online friend Dr. Neale Monks, and we could not find the underlying cause (and believe me, no one in this hobby knows more about it than Neale) and he said it was a diatom, organic or bacterial bloom, cause unknown. We whittled it down to organics. I'm fairly certain it was the wood, I have had it for years and wood being organic does break down in time.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Neither. The tank became cloudy, and remained so for three years. I tested all I could, the fish load was minimal for the tank, the plants were thriving...but this brown gunk collected on the roots of floating plants, and brown organic matter was everywhere. I discussed this with my online friend Dr. Neale Monks, and we could not find the underlying cause (and believe me, no one in this hobby knows more about it than Neale) and he said it was a diatom, organic or bacterial bloom, cause unknown. We whittled it down to organics. I'm fairly certain it was the wood, I have had it for years and wood being organic does break down in time.

I recognise that name! Writes answers to people who need help on WetWebMedia? I've lost many hours reading through their FAQ section, and love the question/answer format. Amusing and also so educational. I recommended that someone email them about a potential parasite in her platy fish, since she had taken microscopic photographs of the fishes waste. I knew that if anyone could ID a parasite that way, it would be on there.

I'm sorry to hear that you had to battle that in your tank for three years. think I'd have torn it down in frustration, but can also appreciate that it could become a challenge and a puzzle that needs to be solved, when you're doing everything right, but it's not resolving it.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Neither. The tank became cloudy, and remained so for three years. I tested all I could, the fish load was minimal for the tank, the plants were thriving...but this brown gunk collected on the roots of floating plants, and brown organic matter was everywhere. I discussed this with my online friend Dr. Neale Monks, and we could not find the underlying cause (and believe me, no one in this hobby knows more about it than Neale) and he said it was a diatom, organic or bacterial bloom, cause unknown. We whittled it down to organics. I'm fairly certain it was the wood, I have had it for years and wood being organic does break down in time.

That just reminded me, just after I started my own tank, my dad showed some renewed interest in his, and removed some plants and his rocks and driftwood to clean them up. Then he said he wasn't sure about the wood, if there was something nasty growing on it, and I took a look. He thought it might be a fungus or black algae or something, but it wasn't, the wood was just flaking apart and disintegrating. It must have been in the tank for a decade or more, and it didn't go back into the tank.

I also rescued the roots of some cryptocorynes he'd removed. They were sad, straggly, algae coated things, and by the time he'd trimmed the worst off, there was nothing but roots left. I stuck those roots in my tank, and now they're one of my best plants. It got so big I needed to divide it up and move it further back in the tank so it wasn't blocking the view completely. Was lovely to see it get so healthy though, I didn't think it would grow back.

 

[seangee]

Oh, so that's what those connectors on the lights are for! Thank you for finding these, they're not a scary expensive gadget either

Actually it also works well as a dimmer. May be a factor in your algae issues. I originally bought it for a tank (Marina Lux) with persistent algae problems. Turned out the light was too bright and running it at 55-60% intensity solved the problem. Liked it so much I bought one for another tank - just as a timer.