Quick Tap Water Question

[erk628]

I decided to test my tap water for ammonia now this ones already hard for me to read because it goes from yellow to a light green that looks a lot a like. Now the tap water wasnt a bright yellow but it wasnt a light green either I would say it was probaly in between. The water conditioner I use is tetraAqua Aquasafe water conditioner with bioextract. Is this something I should worry about will the water conditor and the bacteria in the tank take care of this if there is a slight amount in the tap water which I could be reading wrong. My tanks dont seem to be reading any signs of ammonia.

 

[rebrn]

Hello, I use the exact same water conditioner and it is definitely not the water conditioner. You may have trace amounts of ammonia in your tap water, but before you assume that, try reading it with a good light source behind you, and if possible not compact fluorescent lights, you know the energy saver ones. I have those all over my house and I find they give everything a slight greenish hue. I have a regular bulb in one lamp specifically for reading the tests. Make sure the test tube is up against the white part of the colour card, and a good (non tinted) light source behind you and see if that makes a difference when you read it.

 

[erk628]

Hello, I use the exact same water conditioner and it is definitely not the water conditioner. You may have trace amounts of ammonia in your tap water, but before you assume that, try reading it with a good light source behind you, and if possible not compact fluorescent lights, you know the energy saver ones. I have those all over my house and I find they give everything a slight greenish hue. I have a regular bulb in one lamp specifically for reading the tests. Make sure the test tube is up against the white part of the colour card, and a good (non tinted) light source behind you and see if that makes a difference when you read it.

Thanks for the reply I just tested it again and checked it under another light and it was yellow. Must of just been the bulb in the kitchen giving it a tint. Thanks again

 

[waterdrop]

This thread caused me to have 3 thoughts:

1) For erk628: whenever you measure ammonia in tap water, always be sure to note whether you are doing the test before or after you add conditioner (regardless of what brand of conditioner) since the "after" test will likely show some ammonia due to the breaking apart of the chloramines (assuming you have chloramines and not chlorine.) In fact, doing both, before and after, is always an interesting experiment and good to record in your aquarium notebook.

Two ideas for OM47 et. al. to think about regarding our overall looking at "cases" here in the beginner section -- this thread made me think about these in a different way!

1) smaller tanks: could it be that they are more prone to looking thick yellow rather than clear yellow because of the lefteover ammonia from the chloramine broken apart by the water conditioner being more concentrated if the test is taken not that long after a water change was done? (I realize most cases have been nitrite as the hanger-on chemical, but we've had a few ammonia ones too and I know in most cases it was with fishless, so no water changes were being performed -- anyway I just had this thought, wanted to capture it in case it might somehow help us somewhere in the future with our cases.)

2) rebrn's comment about CFL (compact fluorescent lights) making everything look slightly greenish -- I always made a point to use an incandescent light, others have suggested sunlight (and of course we always try to train new users to think of hue, rather than contrast of course) - anyway this may be a possible cause of the cases we see where the fishless cycler reports that a tiny amount of ammonia is "hanging on forever." I think we should start remembering to ask what type light they are using when we see those cases!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[erk628]

This thread caused me to have 3 thoughts:

1) For erk628: whenever you measure ammonia in tap water, always be sure to note whether you are doing the test before or after you add conditioner (regardless of what brand of conditioner) since the "after" test will likely show some ammonia due to the breaking apart of the chloramines (assuming you have chloramines and not chlorine.) In fact, doing both, before and after, is always an interesting experiment and good to record in your aquarium notebook.

Two ideas for OM47 et. al. to think about regarding our overall looking at "cases" here in the beginner section -- this thread made me think about these in a different way!

1) smaller tanks: could it be that they are more prone to looking thick yellow rather than clear yellow because of the lefteover ammonia from the chloramine broken apart by the water conditioner being more concentrated if the test is taken not that long after a water change was done? (I realize most cases have been nitrite as the hanger-on chemical, but we've had a few ammonia ones too and I know in most cases it was with fishless, so no water changes were being performed -- anyway I just had this thought, wanted to capture it in case it might somehow help us somewhere in the future with our cases.)

2) rebrn's comment about CFL (compact fluorescent lights) making everything look slightly greenish -- I always made a point to use an incandescent light, others have suggested sunlight (and of course we always try to train new users to think of hue, rather than contrast of course) - anyway this may be a possible cause of the cases we see where the fishless cycler reports that a tiny amount of ammonia is "hanging on forever." I think we should start remembering to ask what type light they are using when we see those cases!

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for the reply and the insight waterdrop. When I tested the tap water it was before adding conditioner. I just mentioned the conditioner that I used to see if you guys thought if my tap water did have a hint of ammonia if you guys thought the conitioner would take care of it. I read some were else on the web that some people who have the problem use seachems prime that they say will do something the the amonnia for 24 hours so the bacteria in the filters will have time to take care of it.

 

[rebrn]

Hi Erk628 - glad it worked for you. The conditioner really shouldn't be effecting your ammonia readings, unless your water company uses chloramines in the water like waterdrop said, then the water conditioner will break down the chlorimine and give you a small ammount of ammonia in your dechlorinated water. This is usually not a problem because the ammont is small and once your filter is cycled the bacteria will handel and rid the small amount of ammonia. Where it may become a problem is if your water company is using large amounts of chlorimine, which would produce large amounts of ammonia after dechlorination, but I doubt that is the case, but as waterdrop suggested you may want to check your tap water before and after adding the conditioner just to check. And thanks waterdrop I always forget about the chloramine thing because my water company still uses the old chlorine only method, thanks for the reminder.

As for the CFL thing, it might be a good thing to ask beginners, I made that mistake and discovered the problem by trial and error. Now I have an incandesent bulb in a lamp that is dedicated as my "testing lamp" Maybe someone, much more experienced then I, can write something about how to perform/read test kits and have it pinned. I would give it ago but as I am relatively new myself I might confuse people more then help them

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, just about all conditioners have a chemical which will convert ammonia (NH3) into ammonium (NH4+, aka ionized ammonia.) Examples are Aliphatic Amine salts, hydrosulfite salts or sodium hydroxymethane sulfinic acid.

[This function is totally separate from that performed by Sodium thiosulfate (Na2S2O3), which is the typical chemical used to perform the removal of chlorine or the splitting of chloramine into chlorine and ammonia and the removal of just the chlorine part.]

And you are correct that if you had a little ammonia in the tap water and if you had a working biofilter, then the "ammonia to ammonium converter" would buy you a short period (about 24 hours, as you say, may be about right) of time for the bacteria to do their work and eat this newly added ammonia/ammonium.

In fact, one of the big problems we have among beginners is not realizing how short this time is and confusing it with the function a working biofilter plays. "Ammonia to ammonium converters in conditioners" can't substitute for a working biofilter. Their action time is just too short for ongoing use.

The best choice of conditioner for a given individual hobbyist, like lots of products, depends on a number of personal factors. Maturity of the tank and experience of the hobbyist can and perhaps should be the primary factor. The newer the tank and the less experienced the hobbyist, the more payoff there is for choosing one of the best conditioners. As these two factors change, the payoff becomes less.

Like a lot of hobbyists here I recommend Seachem Prime to new users because it has a record of handling both cycling and various difficulties like ammonia converting better than many other conditioners. Amquel+ seems to be another conditioner that gets good reviews, but may be limited to US hobbyists. The other plus factor for Prime is that it is nearly as concentrated (perhaps fully as concentrated) as some of the pond dechlor products that folks use to cut costs. A couple years out, after the biofilter is mature and the hobbyist more experienced, a choice of a cheaper pond dechlor or a change to more frequent smaller water changes with no dechlor may work out, especially if cost is an issue to the hobbyist. Otherwise, a slightly more expensive but pretty concentrated product like Prime may stay as the best habit. Of course, a beginner not knowing even to use a conditioner is worse than the choice of conditioner!

Whew! Time for me to make like a fish myself and get some swimming exercise! Luckily for you guys that'll make me shut up for a bit !

~~waterdrop~~

 

[rebrn]

Thanks waterdrop, and you are right, any conditioner versus no conditioner is best Also I know I said I wouldn't do it, but I tried my hand at the writing the test kit article (http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/315183-liquid-test-kits-how-to-perform-and-read-tests/) give it a read and see what you think, please be brutally honest, I want as much input as I can get.

 

[OldMan47]

That is a good observation on the lighting WD. I always try to get sunlight if I can or an intense white looking light over my shoulder to read a chemical test. My bathroom light, the place I usually test, has a spiral cool white fluorescent and an incandescent in the fixture. The combination is quite bright and contains a fairly full light spectrum.
I favor the Prime for a simple reason. I am cheap when it comes to supplies and that stuff last forever because I use so little. My year old, almost full, 500 ml bottle attests to that, when you consider that I change water on 25 tanks. It is starting to look like a 4 or 5 year supply for about $15 delivered.

 

[erk628]

That is a good observation on the lighting WD. I always try to get sunlight if I can or an intense white looking light over my shoulder to read a chemical test. My bathroom light, the place I usually test, has a spiral cool white fluorescent and an incandescent in the fixture. The combination is quite bright and contains a fairly full light spectrum.
I favor the Prime for a simple reason. I am cheap when it comes to supplies and that stuff last forever because I use so little. My year old, almost full, 500 ml bottle attests to that, when you consider that I change water on 25 tanks. It is starting to look like a 4 or 5 year supply for about $15 delivered.

Old man how much of that stuff do you have to use when doing water changes. The stuff I use a cap full will do 20 gallons. Stuff doesnt last all that long for me. It sounds like you dont need to use nearly that much with prime.

 

[rebrn]

Hi I looked it up for you the prime dosing is 5ml/50 gallons so you would use approximately 0.1ml/gallon as opposed to the Tetra is 0.5ml/gallon. It is cheaper to go with prime, I figured it out one day on a 20 gallon tank prime is approximately $1.25/dose, and tetra is $2.50/dose (going by in store price not on-line price), but the Prime is always sold out of the stores so it is just easier for me to buy the Tetra, it is always in stock at Walmart, plus when I bought my 12 gallon tank it came with a free 250ml bottle of tetra so basically just going to use it up then probably switch to prime (but I will have to order it on-line).

 

[erk628]

Hi I looked it up for you the prime dosing is 5ml/50 gallons so you would use approximately 0.1ml/gallon as opposed to the Tetra is 0.5ml/gallon. It is cheaper to go with prime, I figured it out one day on a 20 gallon tank prime is approximately $1.25/dose, and tetra is $2.50/dose (going by in store price not on-line price), but the Prime is always sold out of the stores so it is just easier for me to buy the Tetra, it is always in stock at Walmart, but Prime is actually cheaper in the long run.

Thanks bud I may order me a big bottle of that online seeing how it uses almost half the amount

 

[Mikaila31]

I always threaten to neutralize my mom's big blue kiddy pool. I've got prime, but never use it cuz of my well water. She is obsessive about testing chlorine in that thing. A 250mL bottle of prime can treat 2500gallons.

As far as ammonia in the tap, it really is not a big issue. I've heard of people have 1ppm in the tap. Even doing a 50% wc means levels in the tank will only be .5ppm. A decently stock tank will eat this up very quickly.