That sounds sensible 
Pure ammonia or ammonium chloride?
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OP
OP
Ace hardware sells pure ammonia in the states
No water changes necessary during a fishless cycle.
If the water level drops significantly, you can top-off with conditioned tap, but leave the tank undisturbed as much as possible, get that BB (beneficial bacteria) colony going, first and foremost...in the beginning, it will first grow in your filter(s), let it run untouched
Good deal with the syringe, they're common and inexpensive, I have several
If the water level drops significantly, you can top-off with conditioned tap, but leave the tank undisturbed as much as possible, get that BB (beneficial bacteria) colony going, first and foremost...in the beginning, it will first grow in your filter(s), let it run untouched
Good deal with the syringe, they're common and inexpensive, I have several
They do, but not the same kind/type that I started out with, that I know of....here's my bottle, 9 years old, still half full...wish I could donate doses through the forum, lol....I'll never need it again...cycled 8-10 tanks with it, around $3 for the bottle
If this type IS still sold at Ace Hardware, someone let me know, please
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Dont know if ace hardware is selling the same type as they carried a few years ago.. shake it and see if u get soap bubbles.. if u do, dont use it
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Water changes - there is one situation where water changes help, and that is where the water is very soft with low carbonate hardness. Because cycling makes a lot of acids, if there is hardly any KH to start with it gets used up and pH drops. The bacteria stop multiplying at very low pH so the cycle stalls.
If KH is 4 or above there should not be a problem.
Ammonia does seem to be harder to get hold of nowadays. At one time there were lots of sellers on Amazon and eBay and one British diy chain sold it, but the diy chain has closed a lot of branches and Amazon/eBay sell mainly ammonia with added detergent. But Dr Tim's ammonium chloride is easy to get hold of.
If KH is 4 or above there should not be a problem.
Ammonia does seem to be harder to get hold of nowadays. At one time there were lots of sellers on Amazon and eBay and one British diy chain sold it, but the diy chain has closed a lot of branches and Amazon/eBay sell mainly ammonia with added detergent. But Dr Tim's ammonium chloride is easy to get hold of.
Ace Ammonia Scent Ammonia Liquid 1 gal - Ace Hardware
Ammonia is a compound of nitrogen and hydrogen with the formula NH3. A stable binary hydride and the simplest pnictogen hydride, ammonia is a colourless gas with a distinct characteristic of a pungent smell.Find the AMMONIA GAL ACE at Ace.
One of the reviews for this product:
"The ingredients are ammonia hydroxide, anhydrous ammonia and water. I used this item to start a cycle in fishless aquiram, unlike most other ammonia out their they have other ingredients in it that you do not want in a fish tank. If you shake it good and it foams its no good, unlike ace it doesn't."
If I'm not mistaken, @Boundava has used this ammonia, or knows that it is safe to use.
You'd never need this much, though, wonder if they sell it in quarts (?)
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TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
I wrote most of the cycling articles here. They were based somewhat on Dr. Tim's methodology. Dr Hovanec is a Ph.D. Microbiologist and he uses the scales favored by the scientific community.
Ammonia, NH3, is a gas. When it is disolved in water most of it turns to ammonium, NH4. Most hobby test kits measure Total Ammona (TA) which is the sum of NH3 + NH4. NH3 is higjly toxic but NH$ is much lees so. Moreover, plants use NH4 and the bacteria prefer to use NH3.
How much to the total ammonia in a tank is in each form depends on two factors, the pH and temperature. The higher either of these are, the more of the ammonia in in the toxic NH3 form. The pH has much more of an effect than the temperature.
Not, to cirlcle back to the 2 v.s. 3 ppm. There are two measurement scales used for the nirtorgen complex (ammonia, nitrite NO2 and Nitrate NO3) in our tanks. The first one which is used by the scientific community, is the Nitrogen scale. If you look at the makeup of NH3, NH4, NO2 and NO3 you will see they all contain an N- which is nitrogen. However the other parts the Hs and the Os vary. Using the nitrogen scales 1 ppm of ammonia = 1 ppm of Nitrite = 1 ppm of nitrate. This is because the scientist are mostly concerned with the nitrogen and they are ignoring the rest.
Howver, most of the hobby test kits measure the who thing, they count the Hs and Os. This method of measurment uses what is called the Total Ion Scale. Think of this as measuring distance in miles or kilometers. And we know that ot os possible to convert there into each other using a formula- 1 mile <-> 1.60934 kilometers.
Without going into all the calculations in the average tank 2 ppm of TA on the nitrogen scale wil measue about 1.28 timnes that on the Total Ion scale which would be about 2.56 ppm. This is pretty close to 3 ppm.
If you use Dr. Tim's method or mine, when the tank is cycled you will find that the total of all the ammonia additions is very close to the same. What is different is how much and how often you add the ammonia in each method.
Next, if you have a 7.0 pH and another person has an 8.0, the same amount of TA in your tank might be safe for the fish for a while but in the 8,0 tank it is killing them. Since I cannot control the ph and do not suggest most fish keepers try, I use the 3.0 level to insure folks with the higher pH and warmer tanks will be sure to get enough bacteria.
Bear in mind that one can remove all the TA in a tank by removing either jut the NH3 or the NH4. As soon as you remove on or the other, the remaining TA will quickly rebalance based on the pH and temp. Eventually removing just one effectively removes it all (to the extent that TA becoems undetectable).
If your read Dr. Tim's methodology it also states not to exceed 5 ppm of ammonia or Nitrite. One an API test kit this would translate to 6.4 ppm of TA and about 16.5 ppm of nitrite. The ppm levels rise in each step of Total Ion scale even though they all have the sane number of Ns. the problem is mist nitrite test kits do not measure anywhere neaar that level. What the cycling method here does, if followed to the letter, is to insure one cannot end up with nitrite high enough to stall things. The only way to know this was an issue requires that one do diluted testing and that is not something most should need to be doing.
The method I designed cannot ever create enough nitrite to stall the cycle nor can it create too much ammonia. It was specifically designed to prevent these things.
Finally. I used to use Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride. Using this product in its current 4 drops/gal. form (initially it was 2 drops) 1 ml. will produce 2 ppm ammonia-nitrogen (or 2.56 ppm ammonia on the total ion scale) in 20 gallons of water. Google "plastic Pipette the cost about 10 cents. Years back I bough 10 1 ml and 10 3 ml and have yet to use them all up, I got them for dosing liquid ferts for plants, but I use them for Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride and other things. I now use a powdered form of ammonium chloride and a tripple beam gram scale to weight it. I also run a bio-farm on and off where I cycle filters for a bunch of tanks all at once fairly rapidly. I seed bacteria from my other filters and also use Dr. Tim's One and Only for this.
The plastic pipettes are so cheal it is hard to find them in small quantities. Here is the smallest number I found on amazon- 20 3 ml max for $4 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P7QZDK4/?tag=ff0d01-20
I got mine years back from a fish site and got 10 x 1 ml and 10 x 3 ml and paid about a 10 cents each, the above link its 20 cents for 3 ml. Poke around oon the net you may find a smaller quant and 1 ml size.
Ammonia, NH3, is a gas. When it is disolved in water most of it turns to ammonium, NH4. Most hobby test kits measure Total Ammona (TA) which is the sum of NH3 + NH4. NH3 is higjly toxic but NH$ is much lees so. Moreover, plants use NH4 and the bacteria prefer to use NH3.
How much to the total ammonia in a tank is in each form depends on two factors, the pH and temperature. The higher either of these are, the more of the ammonia in in the toxic NH3 form. The pH has much more of an effect than the temperature.
Not, to cirlcle back to the 2 v.s. 3 ppm. There are two measurement scales used for the nirtorgen complex (ammonia, nitrite NO2 and Nitrate NO3) in our tanks. The first one which is used by the scientific community, is the Nitrogen scale. If you look at the makeup of NH3, NH4, NO2 and NO3 you will see they all contain an N- which is nitrogen. However the other parts the Hs and the Os vary. Using the nitrogen scales 1 ppm of ammonia = 1 ppm of Nitrite = 1 ppm of nitrate. This is because the scientist are mostly concerned with the nitrogen and they are ignoring the rest.
Howver, most of the hobby test kits measure the who thing, they count the Hs and Os. This method of measurment uses what is called the Total Ion Scale. Think of this as measuring distance in miles or kilometers. And we know that ot os possible to convert there into each other using a formula- 1 mile <-> 1.60934 kilometers.
Without going into all the calculations in the average tank 2 ppm of TA on the nitrogen scale wil measue about 1.28 timnes that on the Total Ion scale which would be about 2.56 ppm. This is pretty close to 3 ppm.
If you use Dr. Tim's method or mine, when the tank is cycled you will find that the total of all the ammonia additions is very close to the same. What is different is how much and how often you add the ammonia in each method.
Next, if you have a 7.0 pH and another person has an 8.0, the same amount of TA in your tank might be safe for the fish for a while but in the 8,0 tank it is killing them. Since I cannot control the ph and do not suggest most fish keepers try, I use the 3.0 level to insure folks with the higher pH and warmer tanks will be sure to get enough bacteria.
Bear in mind that one can remove all the TA in a tank by removing either jut the NH3 or the NH4. As soon as you remove on or the other, the remaining TA will quickly rebalance based on the pH and temp. Eventually removing just one effectively removes it all (to the extent that TA becoems undetectable).
If your read Dr. Tim's methodology it also states not to exceed 5 ppm of ammonia or Nitrite. One an API test kit this would translate to 6.4 ppm of TA and about 16.5 ppm of nitrite. The ppm levels rise in each step of Total Ion scale even though they all have the sane number of Ns. the problem is mist nitrite test kits do not measure anywhere neaar that level. What the cycling method here does, if followed to the letter, is to insure one cannot end up with nitrite high enough to stall things. The only way to know this was an issue requires that one do diluted testing and that is not something most should need to be doing.
The method I designed cannot ever create enough nitrite to stall the cycle nor can it create too much ammonia. It was specifically designed to prevent these things.
Finally. I used to use Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride. Using this product in its current 4 drops/gal. form (initially it was 2 drops) 1 ml. will produce 2 ppm ammonia-nitrogen (or 2.56 ppm ammonia on the total ion scale) in 20 gallons of water. Google "plastic Pipette the cost about 10 cents. Years back I bough 10 1 ml and 10 3 ml and have yet to use them all up, I got them for dosing liquid ferts for plants, but I use them for Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride and other things. I now use a powdered form of ammonium chloride and a tripple beam gram scale to weight it. I also run a bio-farm on and off where I cycle filters for a bunch of tanks all at once fairly rapidly. I seed bacteria from my other filters and also use Dr. Tim's One and Only for this.
The plastic pipettes are so cheal it is hard to find them in small quantities. Here is the smallest number I found on amazon- 20 3 ml max for $4 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P7QZDK4/?tag=ff0d01-20
I got mine years back from a fish site and got 10 x 1 ml and 10 x 3 ml and paid about a 10 cents each, the above link its 20 cents for 3 ml. Poke around oon the net you may find a smaller quant and 1 ml size.
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OP
OP
I thank you... Very much for all that info... A lot to take in. I do already have a plan for the cycle but I really thank you for all that. I do have a measuring syringe that my dad got for free. Thabks again!
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OP
OP
I actually decided to get the ace ammonia... I was at ace and saw it and... Now I have it lol. Its also way cheaper than that dr tims stuffAce Ammonia Scent Ammonia Liquid 1 gal - Ace Hardware
Ammonia is a compound of nitrogen and hydrogen with the formula NH3. A stable binary hydride and the simplest pnictogen hydride, ammonia is a colourless gas with a distinct characteristic of a pungent smell.Find the AMMONIA GAL ACE at Ace.www.acehardware.com
One of the reviews for this product:
"The ingredients are ammonia hydroxide, anhydrous ammonia and water. I used this item to start a cycle in fishless aquiram, unlike most other ammonia out their they have other ingredients in it that you do not want in a fish tank. If you shake it good and it foams its no good, unlike ace it doesn't."
If I'm not mistaken, @Boundava has used this ammonia, or knows that it is safe to use.
You'd never need this much, though, wonder if they sell it in quarts (?)
Good job....now you CAN follow the ammonia calculator here for precise dosing....Is the Ace amm 10% ammonium hydroxide, like it was years ago when I bought mine?
OP
OP
Yup, 10% ammonia hydroxide. I just need the test kit, surge protector, and a thermometer.
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