Possibly Odd Tropheus Behavior

[Seed]

Got sold a Tropheus duboisi recently. It's a tanganyikan cichlid in a mbuna tank, but it seems to have fit in well, isn't harrassed nor does it give harassment overly much. It exhibits normal cichlid behavior in most respects, i.e. stakes out its spot, chases other but doesn't nip or give lengthy chase, etc. Sticks up for itself, doesn't bully other fish, extends its fin as displays, etc. It is a juvenile approximately 1.5 inches in length. Got it because my wife liked it a lot and convinced me to get it.

The fish looks healthy. Its body is plump (but not bloated), and it's coloration appears normal, it isn't faded or milky. Its fins are not nipped. There is no sign of ich or fungal infections. There are no sores or anything abnormal about its body at all. I have carefully looked at its gills while it was respirating (not the easiest thing to do, BTW) and they seem normal, not bruised or bleeding. It isn't respirating heavily either, respiration looks like I'd expect it to, but I'm no expert.

What it's doing is swimming near a particular rock, turning on its side, and then very quickly rubbing against the rock. It does this with both sides of its body. It is a very quick maneuver, the entire things takes less than a second. It's so quick actually I'm not sure if the fish ever actually makes contact with the rock. It does not do this obsessively, but from time to time. I have seen the behavior ever since it has been in the tank. It only does this on one horizontally placed rock, and doesn't do this against verticle surfaces at all.

Is this normal behavior for this fish, or is it something I should be concerned about?

Water parameters:
NH3 = 0

NO2- = 0

NO3- = 20

PH = 8.0

GH around 214 ppm
KH around 179 ppm or so.

Temp is around 76 deg F/24.5 deg C

 

[WaterBender1995]

what you dont understand is that it may be showing cichlid behavior, it is NOT able to show typical TROPHEUS behavior. the way to do that is by NOT buying only one but buying them in large groups because thats how they thrive.

do your fish a favor and read more about him/her here: http/cichlidae.com/binder.php?menu=sec&id=tb

 

[Seed]

what you dont understand is that it may be showing cichlid behavior, it is NOT able to show typical TROPHEUS behavior. the way to do that is by NOT buying only one but buying them in large groups because thats how they thrive.

do your fish a favor and read more about him/her here: <a href="http/cichlidae.com/binder.php?menu=sec&id=tb" target="_blank">http/cichlidae.com/binder.php?menu=sec&id=tb</a>

Not only does the collection of articles you provided give no information at all about what I originally asked, but it also gives almost no specific information about the behavior of this species in general, including the importance of grouping. In regards to whether or not the fish is sick, I still don't know after reading the article. This is not a trivial point. If I need to return the fish, letting the LFS know that it is sick or potentially sick is something I would like to do, so that they can check other stock for the illness, and so this goes into one of their quarantine tanks instead of back into a population tank.



I have read other articles that mention that they should be kept with groups of their own species. That's fine I have no issues whatsoever returning it. That said, I haven't seen a single article that says objectively why this is the case. It is hard to judge the importance of it. Is it akin to a fish's optimal pH, in which a fish can adapt to thrive in a pH outside their optimal range? So could a Tropheus species adapt to thrive without a giant group of other same-species Tropheus? Or are they so sociable that being without members of their own species will cause a tremendous amount of stress and then death? Nothing I've read touches on exactly how important it is. That said, since it appears to like its own species and I wasn't overly keen on buying it in the first place, I'll probably return it.

But I'd still like to know if it is likely ill or not so I can let the LFS know one way or the other.

 

[darrel69]

what you dont understand is that it may be showing cichlid behavior, it is NOT able to show typical TROPHEUS behavior. the way to do that is by NOT buying only one but buying them in large groups because thats how they thrive.

do your fish a favor and read more about him/her here: [URL="http/cichlidae.com/binder.php?menu=sec&id=tb"]http/cichlidae.com/binder.php?menu=sec&id=tb[/URL]

Seed was only asking for help/advice, there's no need to bite !!

What it's doing is swimming near a particular rock, turning on its side, and then very quickly rubbing against the rock. It does this with both sides of its body. It is a very quick maneuver, the entire things takes less than a second. It's so quick actually I'm not sure if the fish ever actually makes contact with the rock. It does not do this obsessively, but from time to time. I have seen the behavior ever since it has been in the tank. It only does this on one horizontally placed rock, and doesn't do this against verticle surfaces at all.

Is this normal behavior for this fish, or is it something I should be concerned about?

Hi, him/her rubbing on a rock is perfectly normal. I think most African's (if not all) do this, and unless he/she is doing too much, i wouldn't worry.

I keep a shell at the front of my tank because i know a couple of them like to rub against it as they swim past like you described. They also knock it about, its good to watch lol.

I think, (though i may be wrong), that Tropheus are kept in large groups, 16+, for aggression issues. Kept in anything smaller, and they will kill each other untill only one is left. Unless of course you only have one, which is what a breeder does near me. Last time i went in, he had about 4/5 Tropheus, but all in seperate tanks.

Yes, you may lose some typical Tropheus behaviour, but i should think it would thrive on its own ok. However, i hope your tank's big enougth since its only a juvie, i think they can get pretty aggressive as they grow older.

Please note, im not a Tropheus expert...

Good Luck

 

[Seed]

what you dont understand is that it may be showing cichlid behavior, it is NOT able to show typical TROPHEUS behavior. the way to do that is by NOT buying only one but buying them in large groups because thats how they thrive.

do your fish a favor and read more about him/her here: <a href="http/cichlidae.com/binder.php?menu=sec&id=tb" target="_blank">http/cichlidae.com/binder.php?menu=sec&id=tb</a>

Seed was only asking for help/advice, there's no need to bite !!

What it's doing is swimming near a particular rock, turning on its side, and then very quickly rubbing against the rock. It does this with both sides of its body. It is a very quick maneuver, the entire things takes less than a second. It's so quick actually I'm not sure if the fish ever actually makes contact with the rock. It does not do this obsessively, but from time to time. I have seen the behavior ever since it has been in the tank. It only does this on one horizontally placed rock, and doesn't do this against verticle surfaces at all.

Is this normal behavior for this fish, or is it something I should be concerned about?

Hi, him/her rubbing on a rock is perfectly normal. I think most African's (if not all) do this, and unless he/she is doing too much, i wouldn't worry.

I keep a shell at the front of my tank because i know a couple of them like to rub against it as they swim past like you described. They also knock it about, its good to watch lol.

I think, (though i may be wrong), that Tropheus are kept in large groups, 16+, for aggression issues. Kept in anything smaller, and they will kill each other untill only one is left. Unless of course you only have one, which is what a breeder does near me. Last time i went in, he had about 4/5 Tropheus, but all in seperate tanks.

Yes, you may lose some typical Tropheus behaviour, but i should think it would thrive on its own ok. However, i hope your tank's big enougth since its only a juvie, i think they can get pretty aggressive as they grow older.

Please note, im not a Tropheus expert...

Good Luck

The tank itself is a 120 US gallon tank. It is filled with rock near to the surface across the entire length of the tank, and I'm lucky enough to have a good source of granite. This is an aside, but to describe what I mean, I live in an area that was mined for gold heavily over a hundred years ago, and the tailings have provided me with a lot of interesting black granite, the shapes due to the blasting used to break it up. The result is a large quantity of rock that was easily stackable to create a sort of labyrinth of rock caves. Most aggressive behavior I've seen from the fish is short lived in part because they can so easily escape one another. I don't have an overstocked tank, but the aggression is surprisingly minimal.

If that isn't enough to mitigate its adult aggression, please let me know. All of the information I receive on this thread will help me decide whether or not to return the fish.

 

[darrel69]

The tank itself is a 120 US gallon tank. It is filled with rock near to the surface across the entire length of the tank, and I'm lucky enough to have a good source of granite. This is an aside, but to describe what I mean, I live in an area that was mined for gold heavily over a hundred years ago, and the tailings have provided me with a lot of interesting black granite, the shapes due to the blasting used to break it up. The result is a large quantity of rock that was easily stackable to create a sort of labyrinth of rock caves. Most aggressive behavior I've seen from the fish is short lived in part because they can so easily escape one another. I don't have an overstocked tank, but the aggression is surprisingly minimal.

If that isn't enough to mitigate its adult aggression, please let me know. All of the information I receive on this thread will help me decide whether or not to return the fish.

Ok great, im sure you wont have many problems in a tank that size then.