Poor quality fish from LFS?

[Gruntle]

I think I've come to the conclusion that it might not be me that has caused my heartache.

Over the past couple of years I have bought a couple of dozen neon Tetras from various fish stores nearby. Inevitably most of them die, however I had one that has lived for a couple of years quite happily.

I bought a dozen Celestial Pearl Danios (at great expense, for me anyway) and had all but one pass away. the remaining one is quite well, but very lonely.

At first I thought I was just unable to provide a suitable environment for them, but now I'm beginning to wonder if it's the quality of fish I've purchased. If I've had a CPD for 8 months, then it can't be the water quality? It's just unhealthy fish being sold, I hope.

Having said that, I'm unwilling to shell out another $150 on CPD's in case it is what I've got going in my tank.

Thoughts?

 

[snork6]

I semi-agree with you. I used to buy guppies 24/7 until I finally got smart and started breeding my own. Ever since then I find it almost impossible to kill my guppies. Maybe it has something to do with them being born in my water but all I know is, the fish I get from the pet store die, fish I breed live.

 

[fish48]

I think I've come to the conclusion that it might not be me that has caused my heartache.

Over the past couple of years I have bought a couple of dozen neon Tetras from various fish stores nearby. Inevitably most of them die, however I had one that has lived for a couple of years quite happily.

I bought a dozen Celestial Pearl Danios (at great expense, for me anyway) and had all but one pass away. the remaining one is quite well, but very lonely.

At first I thought I was just unable to provide a suitable environment for them, but now I'm beginning to wonder if it's the quality of fish I've purchased. If I've had a CPD for 8 months, then it can't be the water quality? It's just unhealthy fish being sold, I hope.

Having said that, I'm unwilling to shell out another $150 on CPD's in case it is what I've got going in my tank.

Thoughts?

sadly it can be a combination of both, poor quality or change of environment. in my opinion celestial pearl danios for sale at Lfs in the UK are of poor quality or at least every pet shop that I have visited in the last few years I seen some in a local fish shop today many of them very thin with sunken bellies.

 

[fish48]

your success with guppies has everything to do with them being born in your water. not all guppies from the local pet stores are of poor quality on many occasions it's down to a change of environment. if your store guppies have lived long enough to have Fry they would adapt to your water conditions/ environment.

 

[StevenF]

I think most of it is poor quality water. Most of use just test ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and PH. If the levels are good many will ten blame the quality of the fish from the store. After all what else could it be? But that said there are a lot of things in water that could kill your fish that most people don't test for. GH, KH, copper, potassium, sodium, chlorine, iodine, bromine, selenium, arsenic, vanadium, lead, mercury or many others. All of these may be harmful at some level. A commercial lab can test for 30 or more elements typically found in water. In sea water scientist have found every element in the periodic table.

I have read countless times on forums of people having multiple illnesses over a year in the aquarium, quarantine tanks, drip acclimatization and other measures taken to prevent new fish from getting sick. And yet since I started about 4 years ago I have not seen any of the illnesses people talk about and I have not used quarantine tanks or drip acclimatization. I have had only two die offs. One from equipment failure and more recently a slow die off of fish that I am 90% certain was caused by a trace mineral buildup in the water. But without a lot of tests I don't have I will never by sure. The only other issue I have had is a very persistent algae issue.

Keep in mind fish have an immune system just like we do. If it is not working correctly they will get sick. If the water is missing a critical element they need or there is too much of something they don't need their immune system will be stressed and that can lead to infections or illnesses that you may or may not be able to see. Yes fish stores with there high concentration of of fish are a breeding ground for aquarium diseases. But to make that the default cause when your nitrogen and PH level is fine is not going to help you solve the issue. And if you solve the issue use the forum to let everyone know. It might be something new that will help a lot of people.

 

[NickAu]

If I've had a CPD for 8 months, then it can't be the water quality? It's just unhealthy fish being sold,

I respectfully disagree, your water could be slowly killing them because of something that is or isn't in the water.

 

[Demeter32]

Another thing to think about is if the fish in the pet store are recent arrivals. Stress from getting shipped across the country and/or continent, being tossed into a tank at the store, then caught and tossed into another tank will easily kill off the more fragile species (tetras, danios, etc).

I've bought fish that didn't look too hot at the store, kept them well taken care of and had them turn right around and become beautiful additions. That being said, I've also had some of the weaker ones slowly end up dying off over those few weeks.

New fish should always be given extra TLC in their own temporary tanks when possible. Extra food, water changes and careful observation is usually what my new fish get for the first couple of weeks.

 

[Ch4rlie]

A mixed response from all.

This seems to be something of a topic that hard to pinpoint as to why new fish die off quickly. But a good discussion though

Imho, its likely to be a combination of factors.

Do remember that LFS stores tend to have their own filtration systems that makes the water softer and runs through whole lines of tanks so the water is being mixed from tank to tank, so this alone could have a number of reasons or diseases in which could be passed onto fish, especially stressed fish.

As mentioned, usually LFS has softer water and if you put in fish from soft LFS water to harder water or higher pH in your hoem aquarium this could be a factor in affecting your fish's health.

Your water quaility in your quarium itself may be of something to consider as well, not saying this is the cause but its a possibility amongst the many other number of reasons.

CPD's and Neons tend not to be the hardiest of fish to keep, they seems to be particularly prone to diseases easily.
Both these species are skittish fish, very easily spooked so are easily stressed thus this will have an impact on their overall immune system and health.

IMHO drip acclmitisation does little for any new fish unless they are wild caught, from exotic locations or being adapted to cope with higher / lower extreme ranges of pH and even then its likely to take weeks if not months to acclimitise these types of fish to your normal home aquarium water parameters.

 

[Gruntle]

I respectfully disagree, your water could be slowly killing them because of something that is or isn't in the water.

I understand your point of view. Perhaps I should have added a little extra detail. I have been looking for CPD's for 2 years, I finally saw them in a LFS but the tank had "not for sale" on it. However the store employee said that they'd just come out of quarantine. I bought six of them. Five died within the week, I went back to the store (but being such a small fish, I never found a body to take back with me). I got another six at a discounted price. I lost six of the seven within the week (not sure if the remaining one is the original survivor or another). Six months on, the sole survivor is still swimming about. I couldn't be bothered going back to complain again.

 

[Ch4rlie]

I keep CPDs as well. Though luckily for me, I know where to get some from a chain store thats no more than 35 minutes drive away. I have had CPD's for several years now and of course I've had some die off over that time.

However, I bought 7 CPD's from a different store that I never bought livestock from before, these 7 fish died within a week, never really found out why and have never bought from that store again actually.

So, two sides of the coin there, could simply have been poor stock or was very unlucky with that batch of CPD's.
Could have been any number of reasons to be entirely honest.

Like you, I find that these little fish are not cheap at all.

Given the choice, if I could find a reputable breeder who has a good line of CPD's, I'd bite his arm off to aquire some of these, even if they are much more expensive.

Store / Chain LFS are often the only choice and can be a bit of a gamble, but if you know if the LFS staff take good care of their livestock (granted not that many are that good) then pretty much these fish will be fine as long as you have the correct water parameters and tank set up.

 

[AbbeysDad]

I tend to question water quality when I hear stories like this. We tend to believe that the water quality in our tanks is good, but unless your doing 50% water changes every other day, all tanks have water in various stages of pollution!
I often read on forums confusion about problems with new fish deaths while 'my older fish are just fine'. But fish can adapt to poor water quality that occurs slowly over time, but a new fish may not survive the shock of poor quality water. I remember on another forum a fellow constantly bragged about never doing partial water changes and his fish were just fine, even breeding...but a good filter and plants is not enough to purify water.
Nature constantly refreshes fresh water with rain.

Old Tank Syndrome is real and unless you do routine partial water changes of a sufficient volume AND do routine tank/filter maintenance...it can happen to you. Any existing fish may seem to be fine....even breeding, but they will likely have shorter life spans. However, new fish added may be very short lived due to the poor water quality. Water quality can't be judged based only on aspects of the nitrogen cycle - although high nitrates can be an indicator of other high negative compounds we can't test for and/or don't know about.
And as StevenF pointed out, MANY fish illnesses and deaths are the result of poor water quality that has lowered fish immune systems.

'The solution to pollution is dilution.'

As to drip acclimation - it is practically pointless. It takes fish several days, sometimes weeks to acclimate to different water chemistry. For shipped fish, drip acclimation can be deadly. With shipped fish, the pH drops as the water becomes slightly acidic. This is actually good because at the lower pH the ammonia is converted to ammonium which is far less toxic. With drip acclimation, the pH increases and the ammonium converts back to deadly ammonia. "Plop and Drop" is the best method: Float bag(s) to equilibrate the temperature, then net or dump through a net into a waste bucket and transfer the fish to the tank.

 

[hobby5]

I tend to question water quality when I hear stories like this. We tend to believe that the water quality in our tanks is good, but unless your doing 50% water changes every other day, all tanks have water in various stages of pollution!

I agree that water quality or differences in water parameters from store to home can be a problem and that many people don't care enough about water quality, but it is very well possible to have great water quality without changing water every other day. Key is low stocking, plants (!), snails and other critters and feeding the right amount and stuff.

@Gruntle
Concerning CPD: Most of the fish I have seen at LFS have problems and I rarely have seen a healthy fish I would buy.