Plants Not Doing Well Or Are They?

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notg2009

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Hey everyone,
I have a 29G  freshwater planted tank. I have been using a 24" 17watts T8 Florasun bulb by Zoomed (5000K) for the past month or so. I dose with Seachem Flourish, Flourish Excel, API leaf zone, and API root tabs per instructions.The tank is cycled and I dose with Seachem Stability when doing water changes. I have regular gravel substrate and have the following plants:
 
Amazon Swords
Ammannias
Anubias
Bleheris
Malayan Aqua Ferns (?)
Java Ferns
3 driftwoods
 
Here is the light that I use: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4479
 
My problem is that I do not see much plant growth with all the products that I use. I see some leaves that are not in good condition and I am starting to think that I'm missing something crucial in my tank.
 
I really appreciate suggestions.
 

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How long have you had the plants in there for?
Sometimes, like fish, it takes a while for plants to acclimatise. When I add new plants I notice that they die off, leaves fall off, the plant goes brown and is almost a stump before they grow back. After 3 months they start to grow.
I have recently bought hyrophila corymbosa and most of the leaves have dropped off, I use a liquid carbon and ferrpol and the leaves are still dropping off but new growth is evident.....
How long are your lights on for?
 
I have had these plants for a while. The smaller java ferns are the ones that I separated from larger bunches that I bought a long time ago. The amazon sword with the big browning leaf has been there for a long time as well. Bleheris are new though. The lights are usually on from 10am to 7pm.
Thanks.
 
What temp is your tank set at?
Usually plants do better at a lower temp 18-24 degrees, its got something to do with c02 concentration being higher at lower temps.
 
I run my tank at 23 degrees and it rarely goes above 24, the plants are all growing out of control, but I only found this out when I moved... in my old house I had the temp up at 28, the plants where tiny back then, I moved in the summer and I forgot to install the heater, so when it started getting cold again I put the heater in and just left it at 23- I didn't realise this until I looked at the mercury bar a week later, it didnt harm anyone so I just left it.... the plants grew quite well after that...

The lights are on for 9 hours so I think this may be adding to the temp of the tank also?
 
How often are you dosing things?? I have heard that if you dose Flourish more than once a week, that it is actually bad for your plants. I've also recently read that you can dose Iron and Potassium almost daily depending on your plants. I just started doing this because I started seeing holes in leaves, and more yellowing.
 
nic1 said:
What temp is your tank set at?
Usually plants do better at a lower temp 18-24 degrees, its got something to do with c02 concentration being higher at lower temps.
 
I run my tank at 23 degrees and it rarely goes above 24, the plants are all growing out of control, but I only found this out when I moved... in my old house I had the temp up at 28, the plants where tiny back then, I moved in the summer and I forgot to install the heater, so when it started getting cold again I put the heater in and just left it at 23- I didn't realise this until I looked at the mercury bar a week later, it didnt harm anyone so I just left it.... the plants grew quite well after that...

The lights are on for 9 hours so I think this may be adding to the temp of the tank also?
 
I keep my tank around 78F (25C). I'll try lowering the temp and see what happens. The light is about 2 inches (5cm) above the surface and the back of the tank is to a window. The tank is about 18 inches tall, so I made a reflector out of aluminum foil for more light exposure.
 
jag51186 said:
How often are you dosing things?? I have heard that if you dose Flourish more than once a week, that it is actually bad for your plants. I've also recently read that you can dose Iron and Potassium almost daily depending on your plants. I just started doing this because I started seeing holes in leaves, and more yellowing.
 
API leaf zone once a week after water change
Flourish once a week after water change
Flourish Excel every ~3 days
 
I should be able to offer some suggestions to improve things.  First, I would change the light.
 
I have used (or tried to use) the so-called plant lights and found them seriously lacking.  The Flora-Sun is high in red and blue (which is why it gives that purplish hue), but it is missing green and this is important for plants.  I would change to the ZooMed Ultra-Sun, or the Hagen Life-Glo.  Both of these are high in red, blue and green (with a Kelvin around 6500K), but also importantly is the fact that the intensity is almost double that of the Flora-Sun.  They will still be 17 watts, but the phosphors are better.  I would probably prefer the Life-Glo, but the Ultra-Sun should be OK too.  I have a 29g among my seven tanks, with one T8 tube (same size), and the Life-Glo has worked fine.  This will be adequate light for the swords, Java Fern, Anubias; stem plants being faster growing tend to require more light intensity.  But once you get things on track, stay with the plants that manage and forget those that don't.
 
Now to the fertilizers.  I would not add so many, as this can have a detrimental effect when light is not sufficient.  Light is the single most important aspect of plants, since the light is what drives photosynthesis, and each plant species has a different requirement when it comes to the intensity to do this.  This is why not all plants will do well in the same tank.  Once you replace the light, I would discontinue the Flourish Excel (I'll come back to this), and the API Leaf Zone.  Stay with the Flourish Comprehensive Supplement, but add it on the day following the water change; the reason for this is that most water conditioners detoxify heavy metals, and these include some essential plant nutrients, so there is a possibility that they may negate some of the plant additive.  For a 29g, 1/2 teaspoon once a week is all you need.  This is a complete liquid fertilizer, containing all necessary nutrients with the exception of three that are naturally present (oxygen, hydrogen and carbon).  One dose should balance the new light, it has in my tank.  A second dose three days later (same amount) won't hurt, and at first might be OK, but keep an eye on algae.
 
The Leaf Zone I am suggesting you discontinue because it is only potassium and iron, and plants have a requirement for 17 nutrients and while these may be present in fish foods and tap water, some are likely going to be missing or insufficient (the Flourish Comprehensive will deal with this).  Adding too much of some nutrients can cause plants to shut down assimilation of other nutrients.
 
The root tabs are fine, but I would change brands; the Flourish Tabs are probably better (I use these), one next to the larger sword plants, replaced every three months will be adequate.  Swords are heavy feeders (provided they have light), and I have found using the substrate tabs does improve these plants.
 
The Excel is a so-called liquid carbon, but it is comprised of glutaraldehyde, a highly toxic disinfectant that even at recommended doses will kill some plants, and if it should be overdosed it can harm and kill plants, fish and bacteria.  I have never used this product, or anything similar, and my plants are thriving.  A good second alternative to the Flourish Comprehensive is the Flourish Trace; I found that using this allowed me to reduce the Comprehensive to once a week, and algae was less of an issue.
 
One question...what is your tap water GH?  I ask because this is the prime source of the "hard" minerals like calcium and magnesium.  You can ascertain the GH from your water authority, likely on their website.
 
Hope this helps, but feel free to question.
 
Byron.
 
Total hardness (as CaCO3) of my tap water is reported as 122. Magnesium not reported. pH ~7.6, Ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0, nitrate ~20. Water temp ~78 in my tank.

If I don't provide carbon as Excel, then do I have to have a homemade or commercial CO2 diffuser?

Thanks for all the great advice everyone.
 
notg2009 said:
Total hardness (as CaCO3) of my tap water is reported as 122. Magnesium not reported. pH ~7.6, Ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0, nitrate ~20. Water temp ~78 in my tank.

If I don't provide carbon as Excel, then do I have to have a homemade or commercial CO2 diffuser?

Thanks for all the great advice everyone.
 
There will be no issue with the GH (hard minerals), but it is one thing to always check.  GH at 122 is presumably ppm (parts per million) or mg/l (milligrams per litre, essentially the same as ppm), which equates to around 7 dGH, ideal for the plants mentioned, and soft water fish too.
 
I'll explain about carbon now.  The primary source of carbon for plants is CO2.  Some plant species, namely those like Vallisneria that occur in hard water habitats, can use bicarbonates as a source of carbon in addition to CO2.  Some plants, such as mosses, cannot use bicarbonates at all.  Most aquarium plants, including those you mentioned, will use CO2 primarily.
 
CO2 is more naturally present in an aquarium than you might think.  The main source is the breakdown of organics by bacteria that occurs in the substrate.  Respiration by plants and fish, and some bacteria, also produces CO2 but this will be less than what occurs from the organics.  So don't be too thorough in cleaning the substrate.  Other nutrients will be released from organics too, and taken up by plant roots, but the CO2 is the most important.  This will usually be sufficient for the needs of the plants, provided the light and other nutrients are balanced accordingly.
 
Carbon is a macro-nutrient, but the amount required by a plant will be determined by the light intensity and duration as well as the other 16 nutrients being available.  Photosynthesis will occur when everything is there, and as soon as something is no longer sufficient, photosynthesis slows and may cease altogether.  At this point algae has the advantage.  My point here is that the balance of light intensity and nutrients, plus light duration, is the key to good plant growth and no problem algae.
 
This brings us back to your present  situation.  A single T8 tube over this sized tank will provide low to moderate light (once you replace the present tube with one I mentioned previously).  The needs of the plants for nutrients will thus be less than what it would if the light was more intense.  It is fairly easy to add most nutrients via a comprehensive liquid supplement, and substrate tabs, but for CO2 we rely on that naturally-occurring.  We refer to this as a low-tech or natural planted tank method.  Adding CO2 by diffusion is only needed when the balance is raised, such as with more intense light and more of the other nutrients, and then we are moving to a high-tech method.
 
Last comment on light duration.  Once we have found the balance between light and available nutrients, the duration factors in.  CO2 is the one nutrient we are not adding, but relying on what is naturally occurring within the system.  So in most cases, this is the factor that determines the duration.  Once the CO2 is depleted, or has been reduced to below the needs of the plants, the continuing light plus fertilizers will encourage algae.  I tend to suggest starting with around eight hours of tank lighting, once everything is balanced, and depending upon algae this can be increased or reduced.  In my own fish room, with seven planted tanks, I have found that eight hours is about as long as the light can be on; one tank is reduced to seven, solely due to algae.
 
Byron.
 

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