PH Problem

[Libbyd]

Hi there,
I’m new to the forum but not to fishkeeping and I have a question.
I’m just in the process of setting up a new tank. Its only 48l and I plan to keep a Betta and maybe if I can find something else small that will go with him.
I wanted to cycle my tank and it’s up and running but when I had a test of the water - somehow the PH has gone up ! I put in some sand, plants and a couple of rocks.

My question is - What could cause the PH to raise out of these things? It’s strange...I’ve used the rocks in a previous setup and can’t recall having problems so I’m thinking it must be the sand ? Is that likely? I bought off amazon just normal fine aquarium sand.
There’s no rush I guess now but I’m disappointed to have hit a snag already !
Thanks for any help anyone can give.

 

[Crispii]

What kind of stones are you using? Some stones have a way of increasing the pH.

 

[utahfish]

Sand and rock will raise PH.

 

[LindaJanie]

I'd do an experiment: take a pinch of the sand, but it in vinegar (or add a couple drops of stronger acid) & see if it reacts. You know, the 'is this rock limestone?' test. That's where I'd start, anyhow. Also, have you tested the rocks? Maybe they didn't affect the pH in a larger tank, but micro tanks are harder to stabilize. PS: We have hard, high pH water here in Central Texas; it's annoying, for sure & just has to be worked around.

 

[Byron]

Agree with other members, but there is a bit more to this that needs explaining.

First, are you certain of the actual pH of your source (tap) water? The pH of the tap water is related to the GH and KH and dissolved CO2, so sorting this out is the first step. The GH and KH help to stabilize the pH once the CO2 (if any) in the tap water itself is out-gassed. These numbers are your starting point.

 

[Essjay]

For clarification: you need to compare the pH of the tank water to tap water that's been allowed to stand for 24 hours not freshly run tap water.

 

[Libbyd]

Right well I didn’t do that - I tested the Ph in freshly run water and didn’t leave it.
oh no - that means it could be that high !? It’s reading so high like 9 on the test strip which is higher than the water coming out the tap - more like 7. I’m not using a proper kit though - just test strips but there’s a definite increase. I guess I should buy a proper kit but I was waiting for a bit.
the rocks were bought from an aquarium shop so I’m sure they are ok but I’m definitely going to do that vinegar test thanks ! I live in south west U.K. and we have very hard water here but I thought that this Ph was so high it was not any good for anything to live in

 

[Byron]

Right well I didn’t do that - I tested the Ph in freshly run water and didn’t leave it.
oh no - that means it could be that high !? It’s reading so high like 9 on the test strip which is higher than the water coming out the tap - more like 7. I’m not using a proper kit though - just test strips but there’s a definite increase. I guess I should buy a proper kit but I was waiting for a bit.
the rocks were bought from an aquarium shop so I’m sure they are ok but I’m definitely going to do that vinegar test thanks ! I live in south west U.K. and we have very hard water here but I thought that this Ph was so high it was not any good for anything to live in

We are not going to be able to adequateely answer this without the numbers for the GH (KH would also help, but less of an issue). The source water parameters are the basis, and while you can target the GH/KH/pH to be safe you/we need to know the starting point.

 

[Libbyd]

I will test tomorrow the GH and kh (thanks for your help ) and let you know. I’ve also just ordered a more accurate kit for testing with but won’t get till Monday.

 

[Libbyd]

So I just dipped the tank and kh and gh look to be around 180 but that is a test strip test so I know that might not be super accurate. I will test Monday with a more accurate kit but for now does that tell anything more? The ph was around 8.5 this morning but I did a 50% water change yesterday and took out the rocks. So I will see if the rocks are the culprit I guess!

 

[Byron]

So I just dipped the tank and kh and gh look to be around 180 but that is a test strip test so I know that might not be super accurate. I will test Monday with a more accurate kit but for now does that tell anything more? The ph was around 8.5 this morning but I did a 50% water change yesterday and took out the rocks. So I will see if the rocks are the culprit I guess!

Test strips generally should be reasonably accurate though many prefer liquid tests. But using these numbers, GH of 180 ppm (= 10 dH) is moderately hard water, sort of on the divide between soft and hard. An equivalent KH means the pH will be buffered to resist changes. So what this all means is that with water from the tap in the aquarium with fish you can expect the GH/KH/pH to remain basically the same as the tap water (you need to do a 24-hour test of tap water for an accurate pH reading, but that should help in understanding this).

Given the above, and depending what the tap water pH ends up being, it may be the end of the issue. But substances such as rock and substrate made of calcareous rock (limestone, aragonite, dolomite, marble, shell, coral, lava) are usually strong enough that they will increase pH and likely KH if not GH.

 

[Essjay]

Can I just check - some test strips only measure up to 180 ppm for hardness. Do your strips measure above that and yuor water reads as 180 ppm, or does your water read as 180 ppm because they don't go any higher? If it's the latter, the strips will read 180 ppm regardless of how high it actually is.

 

[Libbyd]

Can I just check - some test strips only measure up to 180 ppm for hardness. Do your strips measure above that and yuor water reads as 180 ppm, or does your water read as 180 ppm because they don't go any higher?

Oh man you are right the kh goes up to 240 but the gh only goes up to 180 so I need to measure when I get the proper test kit through the post today. Wish it would hurry up. Thanks

 

[Libbyd]

Oh dear well I’ve just tested the water with the fancy kit and it’s so hard (From tap water left to stand or the tank)!! It came out as 267ppm or 15dGH. And the KH was ok I think that was 11 - not sure what that is in ppm but it came out on the safe range according to instructions.
the ph of the tap water was 7.5 but the tank was 8.5. So I’ve deduced that it is the sand ! So my job this weekend will be taking it out I guess and replacing with gravel. I’m hoping that will help? Or will gravel be the same?
I’ve read online bettas are ok in hard water but I’m a bit annoyed it is SO hard really.

 

[Libbyd]

Forgot to say I’m going to test the gravel in a cup before I put it in