Oxygenating Crystals

[andywg]

people immediatley claiming something is a scam should maybe do their own research first before slagging something off so openly. I thought forums were meant to be an enjoyable place for people to talk about their fish this one is just getting plain nasty and people think they know more than they actually do!

I don't think anyone has claimed it is a scam, merely that it looks like one.

There are laws in most countries about claiming something you sell does something when it does not.

What's so nasty about advising someone (who has asked a general enquiry about a product) that the product does not appear capable of doing what it claims to do? I'd say that's a pretty good service to the person asking.

And a forum is a place for people to come and post and debate. Who says they have to be enjoyable? And who gets to be the person to decided what is and what is not enjoyable?

 

[modaz]

im really not to worried about the questions being asked but in general this question shouldve been asked via ebay and not on here in the first place, i really dont think it is fair on me to have to have a debate on whether my listings are a scam and tbh the suggestion that they are is atm on very thin ground. im willing to talk about the subject but without the "finger pointing" and the suggestion of a scam as i dont have to prove anything because i know that the listing is within ebays requirements.

 

[double-trouble]

BIGNOSE..... a straight to the point answer, whether you think this is a scam or not i suggest that you refrain from using the word "scam", you are entitled to your opinion on any product but the use of such words is not the way to go considering im with in the circle that you frequent.... and before you say that the "scam" word is directed at the manufactorers, this thread is about my listings so its directed at me.

If your oxygenating crystals are not a scam, then please enlighten us how your submerged inert rock ensures oxygenation in the aquarium.

this reply is just bloody sarcastic I think your well aware Modaz doesn't make the product he only sells them and if this is what the product states then its common sense this is what he would advertise.

how do you know the product isn't capable of what its meant to do have you used them? do you make them? have you even looked into what properites they possess the answer to those questions are probally no so you have just presumed they dont work without researching your answer which many a time on this forum I have seen newbies slating for not researching properly however it is clear none of you seem to research before making acccusations so when you jump down peoples throat your being hypocritical!

why was such a problem caused because someone mentioned where they are sold on ebay, surely it allows people to look into the product fully given they know somewhere that sells them.

I believe forums shoukld be enjoyable friendly debate is fine but none of you antisocial people seem to know friendly I suggest once in a while you get your noses out from behind your computer screens and take a look at the big wide world people dont speak to others how they do on here. I doubt many people on here would ever greet a simple enquiry with such hostility if it was asked face to face, you just like the fact you can hide behind your keyboard and be harsh and un pleasant to people

 

[MermaidMel]

im really not to worried about the questions being asked but in general this question shouldve been asked via ebay and not on here in the first place, i really dont think it is fair on me to have to have a debate on whether my listings are a scam and tbh the suggestion that they are is atm on very thin ground. im willing to talk about the subject but without the "finger pointing" and the suggestion of a scam as i dont have to prove anything because i know that the listing is within ebays requirements.

I wanted everyone's opinion of the crystals Daz, not just yours, hence posting here without mentioning your particular item number. Not because I think you NEED protecting, but out of courtesy to you because the initial response was to claim the product was a scam and I didn't want people automatically assuming you were selling something that didn't do what it said on the box and then not buying from you.

I have/had no opinion on whether it's a scam or not, just whether the product did act as a good replacement for a filter really, as you know the betta boys don't like a strong current.

If anything, it would be nice if you could acknowledge that I've done nothing to harm your business or your reputation as a seller and that I did actually go out of my way not to mention you or that you were selling a product that potentially wasn't up to scratch, whilst I let everyone else here battle it out and debate out whether or not the product was up to scratch.

Honestly I am not out to get you here, this is not about you, it's about the crystals. Shaz made it about you imo.

 

[modaz]

mel , im not at all blaming you hun, my post that you replied to was a general to everyone that the question shouldve been asked on ebay instead, i dont think that myebay has been affected by it at all, if any this thread has increased my search reports on my ebay .

i know that you didnt say anything about it being a scam so please dont think that im blaming you because as you know me so well you know i would say so if i did.
And i do appreciate your discretion(sp) at the start of the thread, thank you

 

[shaz3271]

how dare you blame me, your the one who always jumps on darrens threads i have seen it many times,

i saw darren was selling these last week then saw your post today, i said nothing untill you quoted him from his ebay auction (if i noticed this im sure other people would have)

in my opionion you were having yet another pop , but again said nothing untill you replyed with your stupid comment about protecting him like he was some sort of criminal

get over yourself silly girl

 

[MermaidMel]

mel , im not at all blaming you hun, my post that you replied to was a general to everyone that the question shouldve been asked on ebay instead, i dont think that myebay has been affected by it at all, if any this thread has increased my search reports on my ebay .

i know that you didnt say anything about it being a scam so please dont think that im blaming you because as you know me so well you know i would say so if i did.
And i do appreciate your discretion(sp) at the start of the thread, thank you

OK I'm glad you feel that way, because for once I was being all grown up this thread is so confusing, I only wanted to know if oxygenating crystals are worth buying lmao what a nightmare way to find out the answer!

 

[MermaidMel]

how dare you blame me, your the one who always jumps on darrens threads i have seen it many times,

i saw darren was selling these last week then saw your post today, i said nothing untill you quoted him from his ebay auction (if i noticed this im sure other people would have)

in my opionion you were having yet another pop , but again said nothing untill you replyed with your stupid comment about protecting him like he was some sort of criminal

get over yourself silly girl

Read back over the thread, you were the first person to out him in the context of my queries
Whether or not Daz minds being mentioned is by the by, but at least have the decency to admit that you were
Daz has already said he appreciates my discretion, what more do you need?
And in your opinion... which is wrong, I am not having a pop at all, if I was then I could have easily posted the ebay item number or seller myself, I don't need to abstain Shaz, that isn't my style, I was genuinely and purposefully not mentioning anyone

 

[modaz]

ok lets chill the thread please, mel i will get all the ingredients etc.... that is on the packaging for you and pm them to you to see so you can research the product more, for anyone else who has requested this info take a hike as you dont have the intention to buy them anyway and your just posting in this thread for the sake of it.

 

[MermaidMel]

ok lets chill the thread please, mel i will get all the ingredients etc.... that is on the packaging for you and pm them to you to see so you can research the product more, for anyone else who has requested this info take a hike as you dont have the intention to buy them anyway and your just posting in this thread for the sake of it.

Thank you

 

[Bignose]

Extraordinary claims like this require extraordinary proof.

I stand 1 million % behind my statement (all the way back at the beginning of this thread).

I have seen nothing in this thread that constitutes any kind of proof that these things do what they say they do.

And until I do see proof, I will continue to advise people to be wary. All the point I brought up so far have yet to be addressed. How do these crystals turn ammonia into nitrate? How do the crystals release oxygen? And, for that matter, how did fishkeeping ever get along without them?

To all the people who think that I and Andy have to disprove that these crystals don't do what their manufacturer claims, I'm going to claim that an invisible troll lives in my cupboard and every night blesses my fish by saying his secret magic words and that's why my fish don't get diseases. Disprove that How do you know that there isn't an invisible troll living in my cupboard. You can't.

And that is my main point. It is not my or Andy's job to disprove the claims of anyone trying to sell something -- it is up to the claimer to prove that his product works like he says it does. The onus is on the one making the claim. We do NOT have to entertain every farfetched notion until they are proven wrong.

Look. You wouldn't buy a used car from a guy advertising in the newspaper without taking it for a test drive -- proving that it works. You wouldn't buy it just taking a complete stranger at his word, would you? If you would, I've got some lovely property deeds I'd like to sell you, very cheap, and oyu have my word that they are indeed for the actual Brooklyn Bridge, the actual Tower of London, and I'll even throw in the deed to the Great Pyramid of Giza.

So, all the way back to my main point.

Extraordinary claims like these require extraordinary proof. Present the proof, and I guarantee I will change my mind. Present no proof, and I will continue my aggressive skepticism. It is really is that simple.

 

[Bignose]

BIGNOSE..... a straight to the point answer, whether you think this is a scam or not i suggest that you refrain from using the word "scam", you are entitled to your opinion on any product but the use of such words is not the way to go considering im with in the circle that you frequent.... and before you say that the "scam" word is directed at the manufactorers, this thread is about my listings so its directed at me.

Standing by exactly what I said above. Extraordinary claims such as the ones the product you are selling are making require extraordinary proof.

Please provide the proof, and I guarantee that I will, in public, completely rescind my use of the word scam and apologize.

Provide no proof, and I will continue to publicly question and say that these sound a lot like a scam.

It is really that simple. All I am asking for is some evidence that these do what you say they do.

 

[Bignose]

On the back of packet it says:
These crystal balls are special biological filter material which are extremely porus and will absorb dirt and debris in the water. They are capableof asisting in converting toxic ammonia into non-toxic nitrate. Thus provide water that is virtualy bacteria free and enriched with dissolved oxgen.

Sorry about the triple-post here, but I wanted to address these claims directly because they are from the package material.

1) I want to know what exactly "capable of assisting in converting ... ammonia to ... nitrate" means. Are they saying that they help speed up the process in anyway? Or are they "assissting" just by being a surface for the filter bacteria to grow on, just like every other surface of the tank.

2) Why would anyone want water that is virtually bacteria free? Bacteria do tons of helpful stuff in the tank, the big one being the filter bacteria. But, they also grow into a healthy biofilm that a lot of fish, especially fry, like to consume directly and consume the microorganism that live in the biofilm. A healthy tank has a wide, wide variety of bacteria in it -- a healthy tank is in no way whatsoever "virtually bacteria free"

3) The enriched dissolved oxygen is claim is just false. Unless you have some very unusual circumstances, your tank water is going to be 100% a saturated with oxygen as it can be. Nature always strives toward saturation when it can, and there is more than enough oxygen in the air to completely saturate water, especially when the water is being splashed around. It doesn't matter how much extra oxygen is around, no more will go into the water. You could bubble 100% pure oxygen from a gas cylinder like in the chemistry labs, and if the water is already saturated with oxygen, no more oxygen will enter the water! That's what saturation means. And, like I said, almost all fishtanks are going to be right at saturation anyway, so it doesn't matter if the crystals do indeed release oxygen -- it doesn't mean anything because the water can't take up more oxygen anyway,

In fact, in the rare circumstance where cool water is saturated and then warms up, water can actually hold over 100% sautration, but that is not a good situation. Just like people who will die if they breathe too oxygen-rich air, fish will die if they respire too oxygen-rich water.

So, yes I am repeating myself, but where is the evidence? Show me proof that these things help and actually provide some benefits and I will drop my claim. If not, I will continue to question over and over and over.

 

[modaz]

BIGNOSE..... a straight to the point answer, whether you think this is a scam or not i suggest that you refrain from using the word "scam", you are entitled to your opinion on any product but the use of such words is not the way to go considering im with in the circle that you frequent.... and before you say that the "scam" word is directed at the manufactorers, this thread is about my listings so its directed at me.

Standing by exactly what I said above. Extraordinary claims such as the ones the product you are selling are making require extraordinary proof.

Please provide the proof, and I guarantee that I will, in public, completely rescind my use of the word scam and apologize.

Provide no proof, and I will continue to publicly question and say that these sound a lot like a scam.

It is really that simple. All I am asking for is some evidence that these do what you say they do.

well your gunna be waiting a very long time, im really not interested in whether you require the info, this thread has turned from the word scam to spam, take a hike and go and play with your troll as he seems to be the root of your problems

 

[Bignose]

BIGNOSE..... a straight to the point answer, whether you think this is a scam or not i suggest that you refrain from using the word "scam", you are entitled to your opinion on any product but the use of such words is not the way to go considering im with in the circle that you frequent.... and before you say that the "scam" word is directed at the manufactorers, this thread is about my listings so its directed at me.

Standing by exactly what I said above. Extraordinary claims such as the ones the product you are selling are making require extraordinary proof.

Please provide the proof, and I guarantee that I will, in public, completely rescind my use of the word scam and apologize.

Provide no proof, and I will continue to publicly question and say that these sound a lot like a scam.

It is really that simple. All I am asking for is some evidence that these do what you say they do.

well your gunna be waiting a very long time, im really not interested in whether you require the info, this thread has turned from the word scam to spam, take a hike and go and play with your troll as he seems to be the root of your problems

If you aren't going to take this opportunity to provide some proof, then I'm just going to be as blunt as you here:

Don't buy these crystals. They are a scam. There is zero proof that they work. It is nothing but a waste of money.