Oh My GOD I got an ALTUM!

[xamdarb]

you also post Wayyyyyyyyy to much and i find your posts are not very helpful in other forums and in my oppinion that hex tank sounds a little to small because it does not sound like you fish are going to have much room to swim lenght wise when full grown

 

[CFC]

For the ammount of questions you are asking about this fish i really dont think you should be getting it, if you were in any way capable of keeping wild caught altum angels you would not be asking these sort of questions IMO.

The basics are

They NEED soft acidic water, either R/O or if you are blessed with having that on tap.

They NEED a tank that is at least 36 inches long by 12 inches wide by 30 inches tall, IMO this would be a minimum for a breeding pair, a group should have a minimum of a 48x18x30".

They NEED to be kept in a group unless they are a confirmed breeding pair, 2 unpaired fish has a high chance of failure, 3 is a trio and if two pair off will leave a single fish which WILL be picked on, 4 is the minimum recomended number of unpaired altums, personally i'd say 6.

If you can't meet even one of these standards then dont keep Altums, just buy a group of scalares which will give you just as much enjoyment and far less worries.

 

[Kopix Nation]

sorry for asking so many questions... )

claire

 

[LifeBear]

Claire, we aren't trying to rain on your parade. The advice being given here is in the interest of trying to make that fish as happy and healthy as it can be.

If you get this hex tank and if you still bring home this altum, just keep him in there alone. Do not worry about pairs and trios and such. He will not be "lonely." And he will need all that space for himself.

Should you look into a larger tank in the future, a 120 would be better than a 125. A 120 is deeper, the 125 is longer.

Sylvia, Where did you get the information that Pterophyllum altum amd Pterophyllum scalare are the same species. This is not true. Wild P. scalare are silver with black stripes. They have a slight indentation of the snout and sometimes almost none. There is a subspecies of P.scalare from deeper waters in the Peruvian areas of the Amazon which are higher in body that other varieties and are sometimes mistaken for YOUNG P. altum.
P. altum have brown stripes rather than black and a very distinct indentation of the snout. They have been recorded in deep water river dives as having been 18 and even 20 unches tall. P. scalare does not reach this size.
Ichtheologists also count rows of scales and number of scales at the lateral line row. But I do not feel like looking these figures up.

I have 3 full grown adult P. scalare (1 gold, 1 koi, and 1 silver, not that color matters) and I have seen 2 full grown P. altums at the zoo in Memphis. These are not the same species.

Claire, Think long and hard about how much work you want to put into this fish before you bring him home. Only do it if you are going to do it right. And if you are, then do.

 

[Kopix Nation]

so many people say that altums do get lonely!!! I mean if you know for a fact that my altum will be better off alone than cool.. It is fine with me! I just want this guy to be happy..

claire

 

[CFC]

Angel fish are social fish, in the wild they hang out in groups so that they are safer from predators, they also have complex social relationships with other angels in their group. When kept alone the fish will never relax properly as it has no other fish to alert it to impending danger, you will also never see any of the fishes natural behaviour.

So although the fish won't die from being kept alone you are making its existance a lonely, paranoid and boring one. If you have the funds and means to care for them then buy a group of 4-6 then go for it, if you dont then choose a less expensive and easier to care for fish.

 

[Kopix Nation]

I thought Lifebear said he would not get lonely!!! I also have decided to get the hex tank but only have a mate pair of altums in it. I will buy four juviniles get a pair and return the left over fish before I get tooooo attached ..... I can not help stunting the altums without getting a tank of at least 120 gallons! Well that is what I heard. Also I heard that male altums turn red in the fins or stripes when ready to mate...or develope red spots on the upper half of the body... is this true??

claire

 

[Fella]

I thought Lifebear said he would not get lonely!!! I also have decided to get the hex tank but only have a mate pair of altums in it. I will buy four juviniles get a pair and return the left over fish before I get tooooo attached ..... I can not help stunting the altums without getting a tank of at least 120 gallons! Well that is what I heard. Also I heard that male altums turn red in the fins or stripes when ready to mate...or develope red spots on the upper half of the body... is this true??

claire

Well, from an ethical point of view, you shouldn't really be buying the fish then. If you can't keep them in the best conditions possible, it would be worth looking for another species of fish to look after, that isn't as big, and isn't as particular. Sorry.

 

[Kopix Nation]

Yea your right... He might be a high backed scalare because he looks too much like one for me...

claire

 

[sylvia]

You are right Lifebear - I re-worded my post to sound like it was meant to. Scalare and altum are not the same species - but they are similar and there have been debates over whether they are completely seperate species or just subspecies. The scale counts etc are 46-48 scales in a lateral row for altum and a notched predorsal contour. Also notched for scalare but has 30-39 scales. Obviously, cultivated varieties/strains of scalare vary greatly but many wild scalare are very similar to altums and the colors are also not as easy to distinguish as you might think. As for Leopoldi, it has 27-29 scales and a straight pre-dorsal contour.

Anyway, back to the point, Kopix Nation, if you don't have room for the group of altums, don't get any at all. It isn't fair on the fish to keep it alone. Young, at least, altums should be kept in a group to make them happy. Like I said in another post, if you don't have the ability to keep the altum now, you can still keep some in future. Get yourself some scalare angels instead for now and enjoy all the wonderful varieties. Once you are confident, have done the research and gathered all the information and equipment/tanks, go for the altums.

I'm not sure what you meant by that last comment - are you thinking the altum is actualy a scalare after all?

 

[Kopix Nation]

I think he might be. He looks very much like Tirpitz. I could be wrong but I don't know. Why can't I move my two little domestic scalares in with the altum?? Or just get a pair of altums??? Or what ever they are... they could be Rio Altums.

claire

 

[Fish_Mike]

Rio Altums are not real Altums. They are just a different-looking variation of the Scalare. Any fish that is not labelled simply as 'Altum' is not an Altum. If it IS a Rio Negro Altum (with red spots), then mixing them with the Scalare should be fine.

 

[Kopix Nation]

but the thing is it does not have red spots... I can not say that it is not a altum. I don't know. you should check out some of the pictures of Tirpitz on the other forums.

claire

 

[black angel]

Can you get a good clear pic of the fish you have then kopix?

 

[Fish_Mike]

That won't help unless he looks exactly like him, or if so, i'll tell you right now your altum is Scalare (not answer you were hoping for, huh?) then:

You should either take a picture of the altum, or look online for Angels that are the same.