Non-Hardy Fish Cycle?

[Rorie]

My first aquarium went without a hitch - 90L aquarium, run for 2 weeks, adding bacteria, then adding 2 Mollys as hardy fish, then adding 2 fish per week.

I am currently cycling my new 340L tank. I am adding bacteria to that too. But i do not want any hardy fish in it, i only want cardinal tetras....can i just add them straight away? As it is a much bigger tank, how many can i add at a time?

What difference will it make that i am going to plant the aquarium before fish go in? I assume this will be beneficial?

 

[Fishkeeper4567]

Personally I would cycle it but I am sure another member will know more about this and your other questions.

 

[electropunk06]

hi a fishless cycle could and should be done with most aquariums. try reading up on it here.
also when you say adding bacteria do you mean mature filter media or the cycle products from a LFS?
Lloyd

 

[Sharpy14]

hi a fishless cycle could and should be done with most aquariums. try reading up on it here.
also when you say adding bacteria do you mean mature filter media or the cycle products from a LFS?
Lloyd

Mate i added 12 neons to my new tank and am having to work hard to look after them and am probably going to loose a few of them, i'd defo go for a fishless cycle its worth the extra wait than worrying and loosing fish, and maybe Neons would be a better choice of shoaling fish because they are easier to care for...
Chris

 

[Rorie]

is adding ammonia the only way to do a fishless cycle?

The bacteria i am adding is just out of a bottle which is meant to boost the bacteria in my filter. I figured thats what you were meant to do anyway, and then adding hardy fish just boosted it further.

If i run the ammonia cycle (what i have done once before) that will set my tank up for a fully (or 80% to be safe) stocked tank...right....but i wont be adding 80% of the fish at once. If i only add, say 10%, then what happens to the 'extra' allowance that i will have? I assume it dies off? And if it does, i am effectively back to cycling the tank with fish again?

 

[electropunk06]

is adding ammonia the only way to do a fishless cycle? (yeah ammonia is the only way to do a fishless cycle that i'm aware of

The bacteria i am adding is just out of a bottle which is meant to boost the bacteria in my filter. I figured thats what you were meant to do anyway, and then adding hardy fish just boosted it further. i believe that these products dont work particularly well but not 100% on that

If i run the ammonia cycle (what i have done once before) that will set my tank up for a fully (or 80% to be safe) stocked tank...right....but i wont be adding 80% of the fish at once. If i only add, say 10%, then what happens to the 'extra' allowance that i will have? I assume it dies off? yeah that is the down side of a fishless cycleAnd if it does, i am effectively back to cycling the tank with fish again? once a good bacterial colony is established in your filter i multiplies fairly rapidly so would only be a mini cycle

If you still have an other tank set up then you could take some of the filter media out of that tank and put it in this cycling tank therefor cycling the filter instantly.
Hope this helps
Lloyd

 

[Rorie]

Well, my current tank is 90L...the new tank i am in the process of cycling is 340L, so any filter media i move will make next to no difference i think!

So, that answers my question, however, i am unsure i can do it this way. Currently i have been running my tank (adding this bacteria start stuff) for about a month. I was then going to add my plants, and then a month after that, add the fish. If i add a load of ammonia, i imagine this will kill my plants?

 

[Sharpy14]

Well, my current tank is 90L...the new tank i am in the process of cycling is 340L, so any filter media i move will make next to no difference i think!

So, that answers my question, however, i am unsure i can do it this way. Currently i have been running my tank (adding this bacteria start stuff) for about a month. I was then going to add my plants, and then a month after that, add the fish. If i add a load of ammonia, i imagine this will kill my plants?

Here's some info on Bacteria Boosters:
http/www.firsttankguide.net/bacteria.php
Chris
And give the website a good read very helpfull

 

[electropunk06]

i think some of the media from the 90L would help a little bit. also plants live off ammonia and remove it from the water have a read of this i don't think many people on here agree with it because fishless is always preferred (not exposing fish to any harmful chemicals) but if you want to go fish in be ready for alot of water changes in the early few weeks/months.
if your not adding fish for a month adding amonia before they are put in will defenatly help the speed of the cycle.
also do you have a test kit?

Lloyd

 

[Rorie]

Thanks for that link about the fishless cycling a planted tank....i guess it is useful, but it confuses me a lot! Are you able to summarise what it means to me? I dont know what a lot of the abbreviations mean which i guess is a reason i am confused

 

[electropunk06]

Well it says (from memory) that if the tank is very well planted all the ammonia and nitrite will get absorbed by the plants, but i think to get enough plants you need a co2 system and nutrient dosing. i still think i fishless cycle is better as there is no chance fish will get exposed to harmful chemicals. But in the end it is up to you. who knows in 20 years there may be another method which is said to be better.
Lloyd

 

[Rorie]

hmm, i thought that was the case.....it mentioned that doing a fishless cycle builds the bacteria, but then adding plants after and then fish is pointless as the plants (as you said) will eat up the ammonia which will depreciate the filter of food to keep that bacteria going. That, i understand, but what TO DO, i did not understand! What would you suggest? And if you know, what does that text suggest is the best option?

 

[Wills]

Hi Rorie!

Ill try and sum up whats going on here. But it could be a lengthy post so bear with me

Ill start with the method you used with your 90 liter and explain what actually goes on with hardy fish and the bottled bacteria

First of all the reason we have bacteria and filters etc is because of whats called the nitrogen cycle which happens all over the world where ever there is a rotting organic material ie plants, dead animals and fish and animal poo. It starts with the organic waste so in a tank that is the fish poo - the cycle then goes

fish poo - ammonia - nitrite - nitrate

Ammonia is just poison to fish as is nitrite which will kill fish often but some hardy fish will survive the early stages but it can go so so wrong and its the issues in the early stages of a tank why a lot of people get a tank then throw it out because the fish all died and then give up.

This method is the one promoted by shops basically as a money making tool. The bacteria that is meant to be in those bottles is dead no two ways about it - the bacteria that keeps our fish alive need a constant source of ammonia and a constant source of oxygen and in a bottle that will often go dusty in the shop there is no way it can happen. So all it really does is act as a placebo for fish keepers when actually nothing is actually happening in the filter to start with then when you add fish you get really high ammonia and nitrite levels which kill the fish.

This method is the reason why some people have luck with tanks and others sell up after a month because they cant keep them alive its not actually any fault of what people do just what they are taught by shops and the experts in there.

When it comes to hardy fish, yes some fish are hardier than others and can tolerate low exposures to ammonia and nitrite but you can never guarantee that any fish will make it though the cycle alive or disease free.

Im hoping thats explained whats going on and what people are saying about doing the cycle now.

So when people say you need to cycle your tank what they mean is a fishless cycle which is done with house hold ammonia if your in the UK boots and homebase sell it then you dose the tank with a small amount to your tank each day and measure the levels of ammonia and nitrite in the tank over time you will see the ammonia fall as the bacteria that grows in your filter eats it. Then you will see the nitrite rise and then fall then once its done to a point of your dose of ammonia disapearing in 12 hours its ready for fish.

The bacteria in your 90 liter is really going to help even if its just a small piece of the sponge bacteria in the big tank as it will grow rapidly and much much faster compared to a tank without any starting source of bacteria as it will literally grow from a few single bacteria that are in the tap water.

The point of a what we call a cycle at the start of a tank is to provide the first fish in the tank with an ammonia and nitrite free environment and the only way to do that is the fishless cycle or a lot of water changes.

The best advantage of a fish less cycle is that after the cycle you can add most fish species to the tank there and then.

The disadvatnage of a fish less cycle is it takes a few weeks before you can add fish.

Hope thats helped

Wills

 

[Rorie]

Thanks for that, Wills. I did know that...somewhere inside my brain, but i appreciate you clarifying it which confirms what i thought i understood

So, all that being well, what happens when i want a planted aquarium? I understand that the plants will then become the filter..... so.... do i run the ammonia cycle, then add the plants and fish at the same time, or the fish, then gradually add the plants, or what?

Thanks

 

[Wills]

Plants help a bit but you need a seriously planted jungle before no filter is an option like thick plants back to front and full height of the tank basically and even then you can only stock lightly.

However plants and filters together are fine, the main reason I have live plants other than for the appearance is that they use up nitrate which is the end product of the nitrogen cycle.

If your doing a fishless cycle you can add plants but its quite common to get a bit of algae early on so you need to be careful that your plants dont get covered with algae and its easier to wipe algae off the glass then add the decor and plants near the time when the fish come as the plants will just starve any alage out when its in small amounts and should not arise as too much of an issue during the life of the tank.

Wills