Nitrate & Phosphate

[mark4785]

I'd appreciate any feedback regarding what level P04 (phosphate) and NH3 (nitrate) is safe in tropical aquariums containing sensitive fish such as German Blue Rams. The reason I am asking is due to differing opinions on this matter and I think a poll will allow me to ascertain what the general concensus/body of opinion is.

I'm sure many people with planted aquariums may have experienced the dilemma of whether or not to artificially add plant nutrients such as nitrate and phosphate to the water due to the fact that they may only be benefiting the plants and slowly poisoning the fish (in the case of nitrate).

I really do look forward to seeing your votes!

Mark.

 

[anwhyte]

there are 2 m's in dilemma.

 

[mark4785]

there are 2 m's in dilemma.

Whoops, sorry about the typo.

 

[RadaR]

I'm sure many people with planted aquariums may have experienced the dilemma of whether or not to artificially add plant nutrients such as nitrate and phosphate to the water due to the fact that they may only be benefiting the plants and slowly poisoning the fish (in the case of nitrate).

We all think of the fish's well being. We know what concentrations we can dose thanks to many many years of studies done by Tom Barr for example.
Former memeber, andywg also posted many references that showed nitrate readings were not a problem up to 400ppm!! Shrimp showed illness at 120ppm.
London can have NO3 readinds of 40ppm coming out of their tap. They dont have problems.
It's organic waste you need to worry about.

Discus are sensetive wouldnt you agree?

Check out this link then?

Do they look sick or dying? Nope.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/278474-1600-gallon-ei-dosed-discus-tank/

That tank was set up and maintained by Tom Barr for a multi-millionare client.

If you are so afriad of nutrients just have very low light, dont bother with CO2 and just dose trace elements.

Or just dont have a planted tank.

 

[mark4785]

I'm sure many people with planted aquariums may have experienced the dilemma of whether or not to artificially add plant nutrients such as nitrate and phosphate to the water due to the fact that they may only be benefiting the plants and slowly poisoning the fish (in the case of nitrate).

We all think of the fish's well being. We know what concentrations we can dose thanks to many many years of studies done by Tom Barr for example.
Former memeber, andywg also posted many references that showed nitrate readings were not a problem up to 400ppm!! Shrimp showed illness at 120ppm.
London can have NO3 readinds of 40ppm coming out of their tap. They dont have problems.
It's organic waste you need to worry about.

Discus are sensetive wouldnt you agree?

Check out this link then?

Do they look sick or dying? Nope.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/278474-1600-gallon-ei-dosed-discus-tank/

That tank was set up and maintained by Tom Barr for a multi-millionare client.

If you are so afriad of nutrients just have very low light, dont bother with CO2 and just dose trace elements.

Or just dont have a planted tank.

I personally wouldn't declare nitrates are non-toxic based on one case study and which involved fish that I've never seen before.

I think this thread would probably be better responded to on the Dwarf Cichlid forum.

I really do not want to take the risk unless I can collect several people's opinions on this matter.

By the way, I think the EasyLife Nitro dosage level you calculated last night is more suited to a weekly dose.

 

[RadaR]

By the way, I think the EasyLife Nitro dosage level you calculated last night is more suited to a weekly dose.

I know. I read the thread too





Read both posts made by Tom Barr (plantbrain) in this link.

 

[PDSimon]

I don't think that tank is a great example though? It's replaced with RO water on tap whenever need be, he uses co2 as well so any nitrites will get sucked up quickly compared to a low tech tank, the filteration will be huge etc

I know ianho strugged with 2 GBRs (he has a planted blog) and that may have been because of the dosing, but I have no idea.

 

[mark4785]

I don't think that tank is a great example though? It's replaced with RO water on tap whenever need be, he uses co2 as well so any nitrites will get sucked up quickly compared to a low tech tank, the filteration will be huge etc

I know ianho strugged with 2 GBRs (he has a planted blog) and that may have been because of the dosing, but I have no idea.

Well that is what I'm trying to establish; do GBR's respond negatively to high nitrates? If so, I'd have to be stupid to add more of it artificially.

This thread should ideally be on the Dwarf Cichlid forum

 

[RadaR]

I give up. No point in me saying the same thing over and over as well as giving new references if people arent going to listen.

I don't think that tank is a great example though? It's replaced with RO water on tap whenever need be, he uses co2 as well so any nitrites will get sucked up quickly compared to a low tech tank, the filteration will be huge etc

The nitrates are maintained at those levels. EI is about making nutrient a non limiting factor. The filtration has nothing to do about the inorganic nitrates being added.

 

[mark4785]

I give up. No point in me saying the same thing over and over as well as giving new references if people arent going to listen.

I clearly said I wanted a range of opinions, not just yours. But thank you for your input.

 

[ian]

I'm sorry Mark, but the links RadaR has given you are good links (read them)and i think we have advised you about nitrates and phosphates as regards to your GRBs. As PDsimon has said, i did struggle with GBRs, but have moderate/hard water. If your tank is heavy with plants then your nitrates will be fine running at 20ppm, i have read people running at 40ppm with thriving GBR. Dose the said volume in the other thread, which would be 3mls daily and keep an eye on your fish. It won't instantly kill them!

 

[mark4785]

I'm sorry Mark, but the links RadaR has given you are good links (read them)and i think we have advised you about nitrates and phosphates as regards to your GRBs. As PDsimon has said, i did struggle with GBRs, but have moderate/hard water. If your tank is heavy with plants then your nitrates will be fine running at 20ppm, i have read people running at 40ppm with thriving GBR. Dose the said volume in the other thread, which would be 3mls daily and keep an eye on your fish. It won't instantly kill them!

Its probably just me but that thread you are refering to just makes me even more confused.

Are you refering to 3mls of Fosfo or Nitro?

The aquarium is not heavily planted; contains 1 anubias, 1 cryptocoryne and 1 elodea densa. Nitrate levels have creeped up to 10ppm on their own but have not been demonstrating this upward trend ever since dosing liquid c02.

At this point, I am absolutely fine with dosing Fosfo (it's finally sunk in that it's harmless!) but how much is needed and how often in a 120L aquarium?

With regards to the Nitro, again, how much do you think I should add and how often?

Thanks.

 

[snowflake311]

IME nitrates over 40ppm will cause problems. Large cichlids will get hole in head if kept in these conditions too long. I personaly don't let my tanks nitrates get over 15ppm.

As for phosphate I don't worry at all about that. I gave up on plants. phosphate are not harmful to fish even at high levels. The main problem is algea when you have phosphate in the water. So I would not worry about that.

Just do extra wc if you think you have high levels.

The plants you have Are easy plants that don't need much. Ask the plant guys about what to dose.

 

[OldMan47]

I am missing the whole point of this thread. I am probably being a bit dense but when I want to know what is safe for my fish I never conduct a poll. I do some actual literature searching instead.

The subject of nitrates is hotly debated in many circles but we know that nitrates are fairly safe compared to many other poisons in the water. The exact number will vary greatly with each individual fish species so each fish needs to be investigated, not voted on. We do know, as others have already said, that people doing EI dosing do not end up with fish health problems, so those levels are probably safe enough.

 

[mark4785]

I am missing the whole point of this thread. I am probably being a bit dense but when I want to know what is safe for my fish I never conduct a poll. I do some actual literature searching instead.

Well thats your way of getting information, I don't need to conform to that do I? I'll respect your way of gathering information, and you respect my way of gathering information.

I never actual said I ommitted to try and find literature on the internet. I always rely on web searches for many sources of information but I resort to other methods when I feel it is necessary.