Newbie Advice Needed.....

[curlyriff]

Well just a quick update. found a aquatic store who were very friendly and helpful and they said that all i need to do is bring in a sample and they would test it when ever i needed to. the tank has now completely cycled and is looking good, regular water changes about 10-12 ltrs (90ltr tank) once a week. the 2 remaining platies and one remaining danio seem very happy swimming all over the tank often using the bubble curtain as a play toy. lol new fish will be added soon woohoo! thanks for all the advice.

Have you brought yourself a test kit anyways to make sure you have the option to test the water. The shop won't always be open and you should make sure if you are using them that they give you a reading for your PH, Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite at a minimum. Don't forget a shop is still a shop and they want to sell you fish so having your own piece of mind is invaluable.

As I said it would be beneficial for you to have a kit yourself. The API masterkit is around £20 posted on ebay and is what everyone seems to recommend.

Also your tank is not likely to be fully cycled due the bacteria growth. What you are likly to find is that you have had a mini cycle and are able to support your current fish with the waste they produce. As you introduce new fish you will then have a higher waste production that requires a higher bacteria count thus meaning that your tank will need to carry on cycling.

It will take around 6 months for the tank to mature and to support what is regarded as the tanks full capacity. Don't add too many fish at once and make sure you follow the instructions on how to add fish to your tank so they are acclimatised to the conditions.

If you let the members on here know what you are thinking about stocking they will give you some input about the fish and what they will also recommend.

Hope this helps and clarifies a few points.

Kind Regards,

Adam

 

[Fish are friends]

Thanks adam for the advice..

The guy at the store did the test in front of me and the tested ammonia, nitrate, nitrite and ph levels, the nitrite and nitrate levels were still high and he advised me not to add more fish yet. it tuns out that the problem could be the fact that I am using the water form the bathroom and i found out that it is supplied from a tank and isn't recommended for drinking so i should use the direct supply in the kitchen. The guy in the shop said after the next water change in a week i should test it and then again in a week after that and he thinks that that could be the cause of the nitrite and nitrate levels being high... i have to give him his due cause he told me not to buy any more fish yet...

 

[OldMan47]

The testing you are receiving may indeed be a help to you. If the nitrite reading is still high, it is time for you to do a massive water change. The water that is not good enough to drink would definitely not be good enough for your fish. I use water that is perfectly OK for me to drink that is a killer for fish due to elevated nitrites straight from my tap. In my water, the nitrites that I measured 2 weeks ago would have killed fish but I found it quite nice enough to drink. You need to be able to test things for yourself or you are setting yourself up to be unable to answer questions that might guide you to proper solutions. The simple statement that nitrites and nitrates are high is an indication of not only the need to do a water change immediately but illustrates the result of no testing ability. How high is too high? Is the water twice what it should be for nitrites or is it 5 times what can be tolerated? That makes a huge difference to the fish's health in the short term. A 50% water change when a 90% change is called for by the sampling can make the difference between living and dieing for your fish.
Please stop fully trusting people whose only real desire is to sell you things. They can easily give you a half truth, your water is too high in nitrites for example, that seems helpful while holding back the key fact that might lead you to do the correct thing. I do not attribute ulterior motives to them outright but do say that by not giving you the numbers and also not asking the right questions around the water you will use for a water change it leaves you in the untenable position of not really knowing what to do next and not being able to get the right answers from people who really do want to help without a profit motive.

 

[Fish are friends]

Test kit was bought today and tank and water supply was tested. a water change was done yesterday about 20%...tank results nitrite 3.3 (darkest colour on the chart). Nitrate 110 (again darkest on the chart)... tap water test Nitrite below 0.1 (lighter then the lightest) and the nitrate was between 5 and 10. so now i am at a loss.
The only thing i can think of is to do a 90% water change but other then that i have no idea what to do.. Need Help (in more ways then on) Thanks

 

[waterdrop]

Hi FAF, Glad to hear you bought your own test kit this weekend! I'm going to assume the 0.1 (very light trace on nitrite in tap water) you mention is coming from your kitchen faucet (not the problem one elsewhere, right?) So now you have a decent source of tap water and a good liquid-reagent based kit (and I assume some good conditioner) and you are finally ready to tackle the your Fish-In Cycling Situation with all the tools.

You are absolutely correct - your immediate emergency water changes should be as large as you can make them - as close down to the substrate as you can get without the fish actually flopping around. The return water should be treated with conditioner and roughly temperature matched by your hand (you can use the hot/cold mixing tap unless you think its an old heater with a lot of copper, in which case many use heated kettle water for the warm-up into the bucket.) At first you may need to do this twice a day for a couple of days. But your test kit will give you feedback now on whether you are lowering those nitrites and nitrates.

Using a gravel-cleaning siphon each time to deeply stir up the gravel will greatly enhance the effectiveness of the process, removing more of the nitrates etc. The goal, as the worst of the numbers disappear after the first few days we hope is to see what percentage and frequency of water changes will keep you close to zero ppm (for both nitrite and ammonia) and not rising above 0.25ppm (which as you now know can come up very fast) before you can be home again to change water.

Let us know if we're getting the picture right, its been a while ago on your thread.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Fish are friends]

Yeah the low readings are from the cold tap in the kitchen, i heat the water from the kettle both of which i have tested to make sure they are ok and they were so I know the source is good..I did a 50% water change last night and there was a slight change but nothing significant. I was afraid that by me syphoning through the gravel I was removing benificial bacteria but i guess i was wrong... anyway ill be doing vast water changes till the levels are lowered enough for me to start decreasing the frequency and amount of the changes, then hopefully in a few weeks thoughts of adding a few more fish... woohoo. keep you posted..

 

[Fish are friends]

Yeah the low readings are from the cold tap in the kitchen, i heat the water from the kettle both of which i have tested to make sure they are ok and they were so I know the source is good..I did a 50% water change last night and there was a slight change but nothing significant. I was afraid that by me syphoning through the gravel I was removing benificial bacteria but i guess i was wrong... anyway ill be doing vast water changes till the levels are lowered enough for me to start decreasing the frequency and amount of the changes, then hopefully in a few weeks thoughts of adding a few more fish... woohoo. keep you posted..

After a 90% water change the levels are much much lower. Nitrate 20 and Nitrate 0.3 so things are on the way to recovery. time to do another water change grrrrr

 

[waterdrop]

OK, you're beginning to get the idea. I like it when a beginner says "grrr" because it usually means they've finally figured out the real work involved and are engaged in a way that will actually help the fish!

Your worry about the tank gravel was unfounded. While its true that a small number of bacterial "outposts" will develop on the tank gravel, the vast majority, and the only colonies that really matter, will be established on the abundant surfaces *inside* the filter box, where the ammonia is much more concentrated and available and the oxygenated water is made to flow past steadily. Not only that but the particular two species of bacteria we're interested in are the type that will cling tightly to surfaces, like a stain, not like loose debris. Gravel cleaning the substrate would take away loose debris, not bacterial "stains" in the gravel.

Work on getting inside your "band" of zero ppm to 0.25ppm and not over 0.25ppm (or 0.30ppm if using the Nutrafin type kit.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Fish are friends]

Well the signs are looking very positive. After 2 90% water changes and minimising the food. the levels read as such: ammonia - 0, PH between 7 and 7.5,Now the important ones. Nitrate - 10 and finally the nitrites - 0.1. Well it was slightly lighter then the very first colour but it wasnt completely clear so 0.1 is the closest. The hard work is so worth it! The next thing i want to know now is where to next... I want to keep the water like that for at least a week. so to check levels daily.

 

[waterdrop]

Here's how to know the end you are shooting for: Right now, you are still seeing a trace of something (nitrite at the moment, but it could be either poison) after your good water changing and that's your clue that you are doing the right thing to keep up with your testing and water changing. Eventually, you will find that you have perhaps gone two days in a row without changing water because you had true zero ppm readings (always know your tap results too, so you won't be fooled by that.) Going two days is a good sign and at that point you should begin hoping that you can go a whole week like that. That is the gold standard test, going the whole week with double-zero results each day but not having to do any water changes. It means your biofilter is now doing the full work and has become balanced with the bioload of your tank.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Fish are friends]

Well its been a few days since my last water change and the results haven't changed at all... although the nitrites still have a tiny colour change it is still lighter then the 0.1 colour and lighter then my tap water. The nitrates are about the same as what comes out of the tap (10) so I don't think I'll get those down. Ammonia is still 0 which is good.

I am hoping that that is the first signs of everything settling down, I know that once I add more fish then things will change again but I am sure I have gained the knowledge to be able to deal with that!

 

[waterdrop]

In the next 5 days or so, if you just keep seeing the stable 0.1 nitrite readings it will be a good sign, whereas if you get periodic 0.3 readings and need to change water then you will know the N-Bac colony is still a bit too small.

If you see the more stable 0.1 going on a long time with no water changes and decide to introduce a fish or two, I'd be interested in whether this filter eventually tests nitrite to true zero after a few weeks.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Fish are friends]

Waterdrop, you have been a great source of advice, Thank you.
I know i am still a bit of a way off from adding fish but i know i am on the right track. Well today was the first day of total 0 readings, the ammonia and nitrites stayed totally clear. will keep an eye on it and see how it goes.

 

[waterdrop]

Well if they both stay clear then you are only a week away from being able to make the usual small fish addition you would make - although its good to be aware that if you've just got them back up then the fish addition could set them back again pretty quickly, its a little hard to know in that regard. WD

 

[Fish are friends]

Well it's been almost 7 days of double 0's and the nitrates have remained lowish, Did a small (20%) water to clean the gravel and try bring down the nitrates back to tap water levels.. only thing I have noticed is that the PH has risen slightly and is now between 7.5 and 8.0. not sure if that is a problem. from what I have read on various posts that is normal..
Going to start thinking about adding a few more fish but not sure what though. Was going to get a few long fin zebra danios to have a small shoal about but not sure.... The tank is in the back corner of the room so pretty much in full view as you come in the room so i want to get something eye catching hmmmmm decisions decisions...