New tank fish in cycle.

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August Vukosovich

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Hello everyone. I bought a 36 gallon tank and let it run for 24 hours after adding tetra safe start and seachem prime. I know now about the new tank symdrome after reading many of your posts so, I know not do do this next time. I added two male and 4 female guppies, one nerite snail, and a bottom feeder. Can't remember the name but it's long amd skinny and brown lol. I have a power filter going, a bubbler, 5 live plants, and a heater. There are zero ammonia, zero nitrites, and zero nitrates. I did use a filter from a cycled aquarium. The temperature is 78. All 6 fish are at the top of the tank huddled together and hardly moving. They barely eat. They have been in there about 20 hours. Any ideas what is going on? Thanks in advance.
 
I would do an immediate major water change. From your description, something in the water is poisoning the fish; your tests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate would suggest these are not the issue, and the Prime should have detoxified chlorine/chloramine. Do a 70% water change, use only the conditioner (Prime), and only for the volume of water changed. Overdoses of such products can be detrimental.

What is the GH (general or total hardness) and pH? These values for your source water are sufficient. It is always advisable to know all the water chemistry data if possible.
 
I tested the PH and it is 7.4. I apologize but I don't know what GH is. Please explain and I will try to get that information. I use API liquid test kits. Thank you very much for your quick reply. I don't want these beautiful new fish to die because of my ignorance.
 
Also, I'm a nurse and I measure medications every day. I'm positive I didn't overuse the tetra safe start or the seachem prime. I read the directions then checked again before dosing. I've had guppies before and I know this is unusual behavior. I have a 10 gallon tank with three female guppies and i use API product's for them and they are thriving and play and swim all over that tank. What type of water poisoning could it be? They are right next to my ten gallon and those are fine. I'm worried and confused at this point.
 
I tested the PH and it is 7.4. I apologize but I don't know what GH is. Please explain and I will try to get that information. I use API liquid test kits. Thank you very much for your quick reply. I don't want these beautiful new fish to die because of my ignorance.

To give the whole simplified story is best, so what follows are excerpts from an article I wrote on water hardness and pH.

Water in its pure form does not exist in nature; it is a powerful solvent, meaning a substance that easily dissolves other substances to create a solution. As rain falls, it picks up many gasses and particulate matter, and it continues to do this as it passes through the ground. Natural water values therefore vary with respect to hardness and pH because the water acquires specific properties from the landscape. Water flowing over or through rock will assimilate minerals from the rock, becoming what we term “hard” water. Water flowing through soils that contain organic matter will be “soft” because the organics bind with and thus remove minerals while creating acids that enter the water. The pH is largely the result of the hardness as well as the amount of carbon dioxide dissolved in the water.

Water hardness is the measure of dissolved mineral salts in the water, a portion of the TDS (total dissolved solids). There are two basic types of hardness of importance to aquarists, termed general hardness (abbreviated GH) and carbonate hardness (abbreviated KH, from the German “karbon” [carbon]). The combined GH and KH is sometimes termed “total hardness,” but this is of less importance because the GH and KH individually impact the water in different ways.

General Hardness is determined primarily by the minerals calcium and magnesium; GH is sometimes referred to as “permanent hardness” because it cannot be removed from water by boiling as can KH. GH is measured in several different units, but in the hobby the most common are parts per million (ppm) and degrees (dH or dGH). One dGH equals 10 milligrams of calcium or magnesium oxide per litre [1], and is equivalent to 17.848 ppm. Multiplying dGH by 17.9 gives ppm, and similarly dividing ppm by 17.9 gives dGH [the same formula works for KH]. The following chart equates the degrees and relative ppm to common terms in the hobby.

0 - 4 dGH 0 - 70 ppm very soft
4 - 8 dGH 70 - 140 ppm soft
8 - 12 dGH 140 - 210 ppm medium hard
12 - 18 dGH 210 - 320 ppm fairly hard
18 - 30 dGH 320 - 530 ppm hard
over 30 dGH over 530 ppm very hard

Fish are directly impacted by GH and TDS; their growth, the transfer of nutrients and waste products through cell membranes, spawning (sperm transfer, egg fertility or hatching), and the proper functioning of internal organs such as the kidneys can all be affected.​

The GH tends to remain fairly stable unless something in the aquarium targets it, such as adding calcareous rock which would increase the GH as the mineral dissolves very slowly. So knowing the GH of your source (tap) water is usually all you need to know. If you are on city water, your municipal water authority should be able to give you the GH; check their website, or call them. Get the number and the unit of measure they use.

I doubt this is directly related to the issue here, given the pH is 7.4 so the GH is not likely to be extreme, but sometimes it can factor in.
 
Also, I'm a nurse and I measure medications every day. I'm positive I didn't overuse the tetra safe start or the seachem prime. I read the directions then checked again before dosing. I've had guppies before and I know this is unusual behavior. I have a 10 gallon tank with three female guppies and i use API product's for them and they are thriving and play and swim all over that tank. What type of water poisoning could it be? They are right next to my ten gallon and those are fine. I'm worried and confused at this point.

You/we need to eliminate the possible issues to find the problem. I would initially have suspected cycling, but your ammonia and nitrite tests were 0 so assuming the tests were OK that is one issue discounted. Chlorine/chloramine is another common problem, but that doesn't seem likely given you used Prime.

Toxic substances from the tank, or the substrate, or the filter...if the tank and equipment is/was new, this should not be the issue if you cleaned everything in tap water first just in case. Toxins in buckets used here? Something (soap, etc) on your hands not washed off?

Something else occurs to me, and that is using Prime with SafeStart. I'm sure this was mentioned in another thread earlier this week or last...but your major water change using just the Prime will sort this out. The fish's reaction to this water change will be crucial.
 
From your description, our water would be considered medium hard. I can also tell you that I use the same water for my two other tanks that have been set up for 4 weeks and 3 weeks. One is 5 gallon I have 9 baby guppies in and have never lost one. The only difference between this tank and my other two is that instead of using API products, I used Tetra safe start and Seachem prime. Also, I put aquarium rocks i bought from Petco in there and some sea shells. I soaked them in warm water first. Should I take them out? The water is slightly cloudy. A milky color. But I thought it may be bacterial bloom from using the filter media from my ten gallon. Thanks again for all your help!
 
I will do the water change now and post with an update. I think like you said Their behavior with the water change will be a good indication if the water is the issue. I'll let you know!
 
From your description, our water would be considered medium hard. I can also tell you that I use the same water for my two other tanks that have been set up for 4 weeks and 3 weeks. One is 5 gallon I have 9 baby guppies in and have never lost one. The only difference between this tank and my other two is that instead of using API products, I used Tetra safe start and Seachem prime. Also, I put aquarium rocks i bought from Petco in there and some sea shells. I soaked them in warm water first. Should I take them out? The water is slightly cloudy. A milky color. But I thought it may be bacterial bloom from using the filter media from my ten gallon. Thanks again for all your help!

The cloudiness is likely a bacterial bloom, common in new tanks. Bacterial supplements like SafeStart can also contribute to this. It is harmless, if this is the source.

The rock and shells shouldn't be the issue as they were intended for aquarium use (I assume). The shells will slowly dissolve calcium in the water, raising the GH and pH. This is fine with harder water fish like the guppies, and snails. The catfish we should identify as this GH increase may or may not matter here.

I finally tracked down that older thread, it had this:
Wait 24 hours after using Safe Start to use the Prime or it will destroy the bacteria in the bottle. Use another dechlorinator until then.​
That may not be the issue here from the sound of it, but worth keeping in mind. I don't particularly like Prime, and I will never use it because it does "too much" that I don't really want done. But aside from possible overdosing, it shouldn't be the culprit here.
 
I think I'm not liking prime either! With the water change I will use my API stuff since my other fish are fine.
 
I think I'm not liking prime either! With the water change I will use my API stuff since my other fish are fine.

The API Tap Water Conditioner is about the best there is. It detoxifies chlorine and chloramine, and heavy metals. Nothing else. And it is the most highly concentrated so very little is used and it can really save money long-term. To paraphrase, the conditioner that fish would ask for, if they could!
 
I changed the water. They swam down for a few minutes amd went back to the top. However, they are swimming from side to side if the aquarium now amd not just by the heater. Should I do another 25% or so water change again tomorrow to try and get it all? They so seem a little better.
 
Sorry about all the typos lol. My phone updated and won't do automatic spelling changes anymore for some reason.
 
Are you basing temperature readings off the heater or a thermometer? Often heaters are not calibrated properly and will be off by a few degrees. Also, unless you have a planted tank your nitrates won't be 0 - I'd suggest retesting this!
 
Good point about the heater; confirm the water temp, though with guppies this should not be an issue unless it is way off and the water is cold. Warmer water would not see the fish hovering around the heater the source of the heat.

You mention plants, so nitrates at zero with some plants and so few fish is not unusual, but check your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate again to confirm numbers.
 

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