New Member! Please Share Your Wisdom!

Status
Not open for further replies.

arcadiandreamer

New Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Hi all i have recently purchased a 76cm/38cm/38cm tank which i think is 93 litres?? Having not kept tropical fish for a while i would be grateful if anyone could recomend which pump and heater would be best for me on a budget? Also an undergravel filter is needed although maybe the type and make is not so important??

thanks in anticipation of your help

Andy
 
Hello and welcome to the forum. :hi:

It looks like your tank is about 29 gallons. As a general rule, you need at least 3 watts per gallon for a heater so a 100 watt should be fine. You don't really need a water or air pump unless you have some particular plans for it. Rather than a UGF, I would suggest a hang on back (better)or external filter (best). They offer much better filtration and are much easier to maintain. They also give you the option of using sand for a substrate if you choose. For a filter, you need one that is rated at leas 5 times the tank size or about 150 gallons per hour.
 
Welcome to the forum. I've always preferred the external canister system. The brand I use for both heater and filter is Eheim, though some can be a bit pricey. I wouldn't use an undergravel filter if I were you. They just don't work as well other filters. Plus with an external canister filter you can adjust your spray bar to create suface aggitation which will help with oxygenization.
 
Hi and welcome,

I agree with rdd and dark, under-gravel filters are an out-of-date technology now. Internal filters work but use up fish space and cause more water spills when cleaning. Hang-on-back(HOB) and external cannister filters are the way to go. I have a 28G, almost the same as yours. I took a lot of advice from rdd and others and ended up getting an Eheim 2222 cannister and a Hydor inline heater that is inserted on the output tube of the Eheim. This puts both the filter and heater out of the tank and out of sight. As dark says, this can get expensive, so a good alternative to look in to are AquaClear HOB filters. I've seen these recommended by some of the very experienced members on TFF and I've used an Aquaclear Mini myself. You would need a very big one.

And hey Andy, you may be one of the very few people who has asked for information prior to buying hardware and fish. You have the opportunity to read up or refresh your knowledge on fishless cycling and other important things prior to introducing fish to your tank. Its a great opportunity! The knowledge is much more important than the type of hardware or the immediate gratification.
 
If you are in the US, the Aquaclear HOB filters are what I would recomment. The Aquaclear 50 is a good choice, since it will be abe to handle your tank, and is an inch or so less deep then the AQ70 filter (which is for up to 70 gallon tanks, a bit overkill some might say). By deep I mean front to back, which would allow you to put your tank a bit closer to the wall.

A canister filter is better, and with that you can put your tank even closer to the wall, if that is an issue for you. It just costs a lot more money.
 
While I agree that Eheim is probably the best brand in terms of reliability and longevity, I'd take issue with the comment that undergravel filters can't work well. They can work exceedingly well, and in terms of biological filtration are excellent. They do have shortcomings though, and these are why they are less commonly used today than previously. Specifically, they don't work with plants that have roots in the substrate (they're fine with floating plants and epiphytes) and they only work well in tanks that have minimal amounts of rock or bogwood. Undergravel filters don't process solid waste well, so with big fish, you can end up with lots of faeces and silt about the tank. Such waste isn't dangerous, but it looks horrible.

Undergravel filters do have one great advantage though: for the price, they're very effective. If you're on a tight budget, it's hard to beat an undergravel filter with an airstone or powerhead at each end of the tank. Do make sure you maintain the gravel properly by stirring it once a month (at least) and siphon off any silt you find. Also avoid creating too many dead spots under rocks and bogwood, and also ensure the gravel bed is evenly spread out across the tank, otherwise the water will take the path of least resistance through the shallowest part of the bed (which is why digging cichlids can't be kept with undergravel filters).

Why are they so good for the price? Because they -- by definition -- circulate oxygenated water through the bottom levels of the tank, ensuring a good distribution of heat and oxygen. They also have a massive surface area on which bacteria can grow, and because they bacteria are exposed to the water in the tank, if there is little risk of the bacteria dying during a power outage (as happens within half an hour in an external canister filter). Obviously the gravel is cheap to buy, so setting one up isn't expensive.

Do understand that when you see a canister filter or hang-on-the-back filter advertised as being "suitable for 20 gallons" or whatever, that's a generous estimate. Manufacturers assume the best case scenario, in much the same way as motor manufacturers when they tell you your car does 35 miles to the gallon. Yes, it may well do, immediately after servicing, downhill, with a following breeze, no traffic lights, and not carrying any passengers or shopping! I prefer to recommend people buy filters based on turnover, with a minimum turnover of 4 times the volume of the tank per hour recommended for small community species like guppies and neons. In other words, for a 20 gallon tank, you'd choose a filter rated at 4 x 20 = 80 gallons per hour. Bigger fish like goldfish and cichlids need proportionally more, I'd say 6-8 times the volume of the tank, minimum.

By contrast, undergravel filters almost by definition scale up and down with the tank in question. So you can reasonably expect the undergravel filter in your tank to be adequate to the needs of any small community fish being kept. With bigger fish, the "reverse flow undergravel filter" is recommended, and in many ways this is one of the best filters available, period.

Cheers, Neale

Welcome to the forum. I've always preferred the external canister system. The brand I use for both heater and filter is Eheim, though some can be a bit pricey. I wouldn't use an undergravel filter if I were you. They just don't work as well other filters. Plus with an external canister filter you can adjust your spray bar to create suface aggitation which will help with oxygenization.
 
Do understand that when you see a canister filter or hang-on-the-back filter advertised as being "suitable for 20 gallons" or whatever, that's a generous estimate. Manufacturers assume the best case scenario, in much the same way as motor manufacturers when they tell you your car does 35 miles to the gallon. Yes, it may well do, immediately after servicing, downhill, with a following breeze, no traffic lights, and not carrying any passengers or shopping!


Nice analogy Neale, I'm gonna use that one!
 
Do understand that when you see a canister filter or hang-on-the-back filter advertised as being "suitable for 20 gallons" or whatever, that's a generous estimate. Manufacturers assume the best case scenario, in much the same way as motor manufacturers when they tell you your car does 35 miles to the gallon. Yes, it may well do, immediately after servicing, downhill, with a following breeze, no traffic lights, and not carrying any passengers or shopping!


many filters only flow, between 1/2 and 2/3 the advertised rate, when they are used in your tank. as a, very, rough rule of thumb. deduct 1/3 from the claim, and that is likely to be the best the filter will do.
 
Hi folks,

Not sure why nmonks dredged up this thread from March of last year, but of course lots and lots of TFF threads contain really good discussions, especially for beginners keeping themselves open to all kinds of learning!

There was one (mom, spidergravy??) on here last year I think who was having a heck of a time and an undergravel filter was one of the things in the mix. It caused me to read dozens of search results about undergravels, to which I could also add some of my own experience, having had quite a few of them years ago.

I just think the present a sort of paradoxical difficulty for beginners: just as you say, they are really, really inexpensive compared to some other forms of filtration and this is a very big attraction for many beginners and I do agree, a legitimate reason for us to continue to give them serious consideration. However, I believe that undergravel filters also present significant difficulties in maintenance for beginners, their maintenance requirements just being possibly very different from what is commonly taught. I'm not saying the maintenance is necessarily hard, just that I think their ideal maintenance is different.

I also think its correct that the two major undergravel designs (normal flow and reversed flow) are effective biological and mechanical filters, especially when the start-up and operation is undertaken with a good knowledge of them. I just think the trick here is how that knowledge is going to get transferred to beginners. In reality the skills of starting up and maintaining one of these things still seems to have its arcane aspects even for experienced aquarists, not to mention beginners.

Anyway, I guess my comment is that at the very least, we members should make a concerted effort to pass on as much as we know about these filters and their "different rules" as we can, when we find a beginner who is dealing with one.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Whoops! Quite right, was dragged by me, and without good reason. My mistake was to see the query on the bottom of the page in that "related discussions" box, and since the same question was there twice, I took a look. One thing led to another, and here we are!

Cheers, Neale

Not sure why nmonks dredged up this thread from March of last year...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Most reactions

Back
Top