New member - former fish hobbyist (loooong time ago)

[JuiceBox529]

I’d highly recommend live plants, even if you just have a floater like duckweed or salvinia on top with some plastic plants underneath.

Especially if you have a small tank like a 10g with more than just a single betta or group of micro-rasboras or something, fast growing live plants give you a much better buffer for error or ammonia spikes and keep the fish safer through the process! It’s a much harder (and longer process) to cycle an unplanted tank as well.

Also, for artificial plants, I recommend silk plants rather than plastic. Plastic can harm the fish with sharp edges, which can rip fins or open wounds which can be susceptible to infection

 

[bgarthe32 50]

When I did it, the fish in question ‘needed’ to be in groups, so I did the whole bunch. Sometimes the schoalers are not happy/gonna do well with only a few. With Hets, they will get a bit larger than Espeis, so 6-8 Hets with a few Corycats may be your limit.
***Do be sure, if you do the fish-in cycle via Kave Man, that you do not do water changes (even though you may be inclined to do so…..it will set your bb/ammonia equilibrium back some) and that your Prime and Stability are methodically dosed…..write it down. Two more things…..1. Add an airstone. 2. Plug your nose when dosing Prime…..it smells bad I did alternate daily between Stability and Fritz Zyme 7.

 

[bgarthe32 50]

I’d highly recommend live plants, even if you just have a floater like duckweed or salvinia on top with some plastic plants underneath.

Especially if you have a small tank like a 10g with more than just a single betta or group of micro-rasboras or something, fast growing live plants give you a much better buffer for error or ammonia spikes and keep the fish safer through the process! It’s a much harder (and longer process) to cycle an unplanted tank as well.

Also, for artificial plants, I recommend silk plants rather than plastic. Plastic can harm the fish with sharp edges, which can rip fins or open wounds which can be susceptible to infection

The above is correct.

I used to have live plants (my favorite being Hygrophila angustiflora). They do most often help the tank ecology. Just remember that plants can introduce pathogens to your tank just like fish……it happened to me

Silk is nice, but it does disintegrate over time and can be tougher to clean algae off of. I pick my plastic plants very carefully.

The cycling via the Kave Man approach took each of my 33g tanks about 14-18 days of daily treatment to be weaned off of the approach. I did taper off the treatment towards the end to every other day, then every third day etc. I will again say that I was super diligent regarding my NH3 levels and I did feed the fish normally (which is light by most people’s standard).

 

[JCinPA]

Thanks very much for the replies! I have the tank, and equipment is coming in from Amazon. A couple of thoughts I have ...

1. Apparently between my going to college, when I tore down my 10 gallon tank, and now, undergravel filters fell out of favor. I believe the professionals who are now recommending them correctly understood this bias against UGFs was due to manufacturer marketing. Like Gillette moving men away from 10¢ double edged razor blades to multi-blade cartridges costing several dollars each, amateur fish keepers were sucked in by this and bought all the negativity about UGFs thinking they were buying the next new wonderful thing. Now I've done a ton of reading on them in the last few days, some with very scientific analysis, and UGFs are coming back into vogue. I guess I'm glad I missed the bad days for UGFs.

My guess as to why I had such remarkable success with my tank back in the day is the UGF. I never had a test kit. And mine was an original, really old school one with skinny lift tubes (no airstone, just bubbles). I eventually got one with airstones and wider uplift tubes, and put a small HOB on it, as well. But without a test kit, I kept that tank going for years with 20% water changes maybe twice a month, and light vacuuming of the gravel. I didn't have any of the "knowledge" I've just gained, but that apparently helped. The KISS principle applies here, I guess. I will be using the Penn Plax UGF and a Marina S10 slim HOB filter.

2. I rewatched the KaveMan Aquatics video on quick cycling a tank for better understanding. I now know that the Prime should detoxify ammonia for the fish, and Stability is actually "bacteria in a bottle". @bgarthe success and endorsement of the process makes me confident in putting 6-8 or so of those Harlequin Rasboras in the tank right away, continuing with the daily Prime and Stability dosing for a week.

3. I know that the tank will not be fully cycled at that point, but I may introduce another small species like neon or ember tetras at about 2 weeks, continuing with more Prime and Stability at that time.

4. I will introduce some corydoras at about week 4, maybe some more Prime and Stability then. I'll probably start water testing at that point, to determine when I need to start water changes. KaveMan says don't water change before that, count on the Prime to keep the fish healthy and let the bacteria grow.

5. Once they get established, I will introduce some easy and hardy live plants to the tank. I probably won't add more fish, as the purpose for this tank is to entertain grandkids and number of fish is not a big factor. Low bioload should help easy maintenance and make it more stable.

Any suggestions on this plan are welcome! I very rarely lost fish as a kid, probably because I had a good filter setup and tended not to muck with the tank much (laziness was lucky here).

 

[bgarthe32 50]

Regarding a few things…….
Your #2., plz do the Prime w bb for more than a week……7 days is NOT enough.
Your #3., with 6-8 Hets and future Corycats (which prefer groups), adding another group of fish would (imho) be too many for a 10g. 8 Hets with some Corycats would be perfect……adding more would be pushing it. You said it yourself, “Low bioload should help easy maintenance and make it more stable.” Putting 20 fish of the size you’re talking would not be a low bioload.
You could get 15ish micro rasboras instead of Hets, like Chili Rasboras, and put them with some Corycats and be fine.
Your #5., go ahead and add plants. They will contribute to your overall tank health.
Just saying bc I care.

 

[JCinPA]

Thank you, @bgarthe ! Yep further reading suggested you are spot on -- I was looking for too many fish for a 10 gallon. In retrospect, I should have gone with a 20 gallon, with all the gear, the marginal added cost going from a 10 to a 20 is pretty minimal. But I've already started collecting gear, so that ship has sailed.

I think I will go with 8 het to start, then add maybe 3 corys? Will that be enough for them to feel sociable? Hopefully that won't be too big a load and the grandkids won't care that I don't have a 3rd species in there.

 

[bgarthe32 50]

Yes….much better. If you want 6 CoryCats instead of 3, you can do 6-7 Dwarf CoryCats IF you both use finer sand and be sure they get food…..via fast sinking Cory food. Read the latter part of this linked thread.

Corydoras feeding plan in a community aquarium

And…..you can always add a 20g
Btw…..I am purposely staying away from saying anything abt a UGF

 

[JCinPA]

Hahahaha. I didn't think they were still controversial, but I'm sold on UGFs. Must be like discussing religion.

I did read that gravel is not great for the corydoras. Too late for that, I guess. I am rereading your earlier post about types and number of fish to put in this 10 gallon. Very helpful. Thanks!

 

[bgarthe32 50]

Yep….abt UGFs….that’s all I’m gonna say.
Don’t forget to post pics when it’s up and running.

 

[JCinPA]

I'm leaning toward a single species tank now. Regretting not getting a 20 but I'm committed at this point. I may go with your recommendation of the Chili, stick with the Hets, or go with embers or something. As long as the fish are active so the kids can watch them, I'll be happy. Could even go with zebra danios, as a tank full of those hyper-active fish could keep their attention more than a colorful palette.

If this tank goes well, I can see getting the MTS and setting up a 29 at some point in the future.

 

[Back in the fold3]

You’re from the hometown of the legendary Dr. William T. Innes so that in itself will bless your efforts . Welcome back to The Greatest Hobby in The World and welcome to The Great TFF Forum . Oh , and by the way , there still are magazines . I heartily recommend a subscription to Tropical Fish Hobbyist .

 

[JCinPA]

Well, I'm going in a different direction. Everything I read and a couple of you have intimated I should have started with a 20 gal tank, but it's too late for that. Have the tank, full hood, heater, HOB filter, UGF, I'm committed.

BUT, given my objective, something that will catch the grandkids' interest, and after some more research and talking to the fish people at the store, I've decided to go with about 5 guppies, all male (I don't want to get in the fish breeding business). They are fairly hardy, very pretty to look at, and with the long, flowing, colorful fins, the kids should enjoy them. And they are not schooling, so I can mix and match some.

I realize that if this works and the wife likes the result, I'll likely get into another tank in the living area (this one is going in a spare bedroom). Probably something like a 36 gal on a stand, and then I can create a community tank with some interesting schooling fish. For now, I think the guppies are my best bet with this small tank.

Comments still welcome. I'll start a journal and put pics in there as this comes together.

 

[bgarthe32 50]

Plz check your GH for your guppies……just in case. They like some GH (8-15), but don’t really do as well if your water is too soft.

 

[JCinPA]

I started a Freshwater Journal for this tank, link below. I've decided to stick with just 5 male guppies for this 10-gallon tank, I will likely get a larger tank later (I'm easily hooked on new hobbies).

Regarding checking the GH, I did some googling about municipal water in my area and it is considered hard. At the fish store I asked about it because the API Master Test Kit does not have a hardness test. She said the water in our area is plenty hard for them, and they don't do any treatment for water hardness at their store, she said they'd be fine, no need for a specific hardness test.

Thanks to everyone, esp. @bgarthe for the welcome and helpful tips! Link to the journal:

New 10 gal tank for the grandkids - old timer back after 50 years

I am setting up a 10 gal new tank so my young grandkids can enjoy watching fish. I wish now I had gotten a 20 gal but I got a 10 simply because that's what I had as a teenager. My gear list is below. Cleaning it and setting it all up today, will add fish using Kave Man Aquatics fish-in process...

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