New Fish Tank

[ranapratab]

Hello all,

First post, first fish tank. Got a new fish tank yesterday a 38 gallon with stand and the kit, including filter, heater, water treatment etc....
have done the setup yesterday, filled water, put in the recommended water treatment liquids, setting up the filter, etc. according to the shop I have to let it settle for 24 hours as recommended before I go to get some fishes. It is nearly 24 hours and am ready to get some fishes. My questions are:

1. I do not have any gravel or sand: what is better?
2. I do not have any plants or decorations: real or fake? Children have already put their marbles in the tank.
3. What kind of fishes are good for starting? My wife wants a pair of gold fish for sure is that fine? Is a SUCKER fish compulsary in the tank!
4. Filter should it be on 24/7 or needs rest?
5. Lights on 24/7 or needs rest?

Thank you.

 

[smegforbrains]

Whoever told you you could put fish in less than 48 hours after setting up your first tank is, to be blunt, a pratt!


Please do not get any fish yet.


You cannot safely add any fish for at least 4 weeks, even then it is more likely going to be 6-8 weeks.



Please look at this thread:


Cycling Your Tank




This is a very informative thread and you should read it thoroughly before you go any further.



Best of luck and welcome, by the way

 

[The Fish Fan]

Just to second this, I'm new to the hobby.
I've been cycling my tank since the 11th of October, and put my fish in yesterday!

The cycling period gave me time to see what would happen in the tank without fish, I've been able to rescape the interior slightly, tweak lighting and heating. Trim plants and remove some that didn't cut it. And generally read up on related material.

Anyway once I got snails and more recently larvae growing in the tank there was plenty of unwanted life in there to watch.

Please take everything you read about fishless cycling seriously. It's not about making you pointlessly wait and have no fun. it's about the longterm welfare of the fish. Goldfish should grow to be HUGE. Be very sure you want them.

To start fishless cycling all you need to get is a decent liquid based testing kit (about £18 from ebay), some ammonia from Homebase and some pipettes to add measured amounts of ammonia to the tank.

To be honest you have so many questions, you should read as much as you can on here.

Please confirm that you are willing to be patient, that you are listening, and I think you'll get great advice on everything you need to know from this forum.

 

[ranapratab]

Poor kids they are so looking forward to get the fishes today.

The jerk who sold the tank to us it takes a day for the tank to settle, we have to put in the treatment and leave the filetr running for a day and then you can add the fishes

But 2 months, seriously? Are you sure! how can you deal with an empty tank for 2 months! No short cuts to speed up!

What about atleast 1 fish can I buy the fishes which are kept in the small containers with the pretty tails for now to please the kids! really thats not the answer I had expected but you all know better. Can I buy that fish and give them for now will they stay in that small container for the time being?

Yes if I have no choice I am willing to wait and will go through the link of cycling. Thank you for your time. feel like a total stupid idiot taking the advise from the seller. are you sure its 2 months?

 

[smegforbrains]

Seeing as you have no other tanks already set up, i'm afraid there is no 'short cut'


I presume by pretty tailed fish, you mean a Betta, or Siamese Fighter as they are commonly known.

You can by all means get one of these. I would recommend a 5 gallon tank. You can pick up something like an Aqua 40 for about £25-30. this will include the necessary lighting and filtration. You will also need a heater (50 watts) as Bettas need to be kept at around 26 degrees celcius (I would buy one from eBay (about a tenner posted) as the local fish store will be twice the price).


Your local fish store may have other brands of starter tank for around the £25 mark - just make sure it has lighting and filtration.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi there ranapratab and Welcome to the forum!

You have run smack into the problem that drives the central dilemma through the hobby. Parents with young children are one of the sales segments that drives growth in the industry and yet the true preparation for beginning a healthy life for these pets takes between 3 weeks and 3 month (!) On some level the industry is well aware that this is inconceivable to the family coming in from outside the hobby and this leads to the behaviours observed among sales associates selling fish. Its denial.

The highly unusual thing in your case is that you've stumbled across "the real thing", "the real hobby" by happening onto this web forum. Most beginners never even know the nature of the real hobby and just do as instructed at the fish store, they bring home fish, watch them die and then realize there seems to be no alternative but to go back and buy more. Meanwhile, for the parent, the recognition dawns that there is only one thing worse than an empty tank with no fish and that's watching the children see their new pets actually dying!

The technical problem is the *Filter*, what they won't tell you (in fact, the sales associates often don't even -know-) is that its like a bunch of computer hardware that has no software, not even an operating system. The software to make it work is, in this case, *bacteria*, in fact two very specific species of bacteria and not any others, and growing this bacteria from scratch just can't be done (despite what any number of snake oil salesmen will tell you) in less than the time alloted. There is in fact one short cut, given the outside chance you can find another willing hobbyist, that you can seed the filter media with live bacteria from a small sample of their old filter media (we call this a "mature media donation.")

As a parent you've already realized that the crux of the problem then is how to entertain your kids (and often, spouse!) during this long entertainment gap! Perhaps the members will offer helpful suggestions, as this has been discussed before. Depending on the age of the kids there are some very real possibilities for involving them and coming out on the other end with a lot of learning and a very enriched experience once the fish finally join the family. I've been through it.

Your job now is to be strong, figure out your approach with the family and get busy reading the pinned topics here so that you can get your hobby education in high gear. Fishless cycling is actually quite fascinating and if you have any interest in science you'll probably get a kick out of it. The Nitrogen Cycle is behind it and there are some nice charts to be found here on TFF, on wikipedia (although inaccurate in places) and elsewhere. The members here are great and you can probably continue right along with this thread for much of the learning of the skills.

Good Luck!
~~waterdrop~~

 

[ranapratab]

Hello Waterdrop: Thank you for taking the time and explaining the purpose and way to achieve that purpose in such simple words. I do understand the importance of cycling and resourceful bacterias needed to keep the pets in ace condition. I was lucky to tumble onto this forum whilst searching for what kind of fishes would be best.

I did go back to the shop where I purchased the tank and their statement was "Not all fishes have to go through the cycle a 24 to max 48 hours settlement is more than enough as we do not solely rely on the tap water but we give out 2/3 kinds of chemicals to be added to the tank. These take care of the long waiting procedure. Previously when you did not have these chemicals you needed the tap water to adjust, but not any more. We sell a lot of fishes and accessoiries and if that was the problem every customer would be back the next day complaining" I just left it at that as don't know the subject too well so no need to argue.

Did not buy any fishes although they assured it was OK. We went to the betta section where these fishes were kept in small containers which they give out for stool samples. Smegforbrains Thank you for your post as well in regards to the beta. I dont know anymore what and who says what. According to the shop sales person "For bettas I do not need a filter or a heater, they are cold water fishes and stay in a bowl, too less of a maintainance, feed 2 times a day and do not mix them with other fishes as they fight. I had no choice but to get one to keep my children happy. I bought a beta kit which they had in the store for 18$ which has in this kit a glass bowl, cleaning pad, Betta Bites, Bowl Prep water treatment, gravel and decorative plant. its known as "Beta Bachleor Pad". I hope the fishy stays. and the fish itself was 6$. I let my 7 year old set up the bowl in her room as she wanted to keep the fishy in her bedroom and the whole eveing the kids were playing in the room admiring the fishy.

I would have not considered having a fish tank on the first place as I personally love dogs. But for the childrens sake I had to take up this hobby as well and its quite interesting to learn that there is not just a tank, filter, fish and food but more to it. It is truly facinating to read some topics on the board even a simple thing like how you release a fish in the aquarium. I bet lots of people must be just getting the fishes from the store come home and release the fish in the tank and must have never heard about the shock the fishy could get, I was explaining the same to my daughter and she was understanding some of it but was more interested in getting the fishy.

Anyways thank you all for contributing and I will keep on reading and do whats right to give our new pets a good new home and environment they deserve.

 

[smegforbrains]

According to the shop sales person "For bettas I do not need a filter or a heater, they are cold water fishes and stay in a bowl, too less of a maintainance, feed 2 times a day and do not mix them with other fishes as they fight.

I see they didn't mention water changes then.


If Bettas are coldwater as he insists, then why are they one of the most well known TROPICAL FISH?



Excuse me while I piss myself laughing at the guy's ignorance.



I do feel sorry for any fish who pass though this dickhead's hands at that shop

 

[waterdrop]

You will find a betta forum and many betta (aka Siamese Fighting Fish, and yes they do fight under certain conditions and yes you are better off with one alone for now and for your situation I believe) lovers here on TFF. In my personal opinion you have made a reasonable choice, even a good choice, given the situation. A tremendous amount can be accomplished simply by establishing a frequent water change schedule (water that is conditioned via dechor chemical, and roughly temperature matched via the skin of your hand) for this single fish. I would suggest that one of the first matters to investigate will be the temperature situation for the betta, and I won't know the best answer for that compared to what the bettta forum people will. Some of them may be upset that you are not starting out with the full and best environment for your betta but you'll have to be practical and will move eventually to make things better for it in time.

Its wonderful that you are embracing the good approach for the big tank and we'll all look forward to helping you with the fishless cycle there. You did indeed experience the snake-oil pitch in its full glory and, while someday you will look back with increased understanding about the future possibilities for "bottled bacteria products," I feel you've made very much the right decision to stand firm against it as a normal beginner wanting to do right by your new fish and to learn and feel what the operation of your tank systems are. It turns out that the extra time afforded by the somewhat lengthy fishless cycling process can be well put to use getting a feel for what good maintenance will be like and asking all kinds of questions and doing lots of reading of other people's threads here on TFF.

So, for starters, I assume you've arrived at the realization that a good test kit if important, right? Many of us use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit and while no one here wants to push one product over another, its use by a lot of members causes a somewhat common "lingo" and ease of communication. The Nutrafin Mini-Master Test Kit is also quite common and good. The most essential thing here is that liquid-reagent based tests are far more accurate for the purpose than paper-strip based tests, which are next to useless. Ideally you'll have a couple of quantity-marked syringes from the drugstore for use. One is always for the tank test water, the other is for dosing the aquarium with the pure household ammonia.

Finding the pure household ammonia is quite an ordeal in some cases. It needs to be free of soaps, dyes and fragrances. When you shake it you want it to just bubble as if it were water, not to foam as this would be an indication of surfactants (soaps.) Usually the stuff is found near the mops and brooms in household stores and sometimes store personel will not help you find it because, apparently, there are sometimes concerns of misuse of the stuff.

Once you get your test kit you'll want to practice how to use it and post up results here of your tap and tank water readings. Ammonia, nitrite(NO2, pH and nitrate(NO3) are the initial tests of concern, but even right away when you get started, not all those might be needed on a regular day to day basis. You'll want a notebook for an aquarium log and should record all results and observations there - much more helpful than you can imagine currently, by the way. You'll want to discuss your filter and filter media situation/choices prior to starting fishless cycling in case there are any changes in order.

Later!
~~waterdrop~~

 

[petertr]

Local Fish Shop/Store salesmen are just that, salesmen.


So many people think that fish only live for a few months because of this ignorance.

See the links at the bottom of my sig, I support the same ideals as others on here.



Teaching your children about how to care for a pet is important - don't let them buy a pet that they are going to make suffer!

 

[waterdrop]

Local Fish Shop/Store salesmen are just that, salesmen.


So many people think that fish only live for a few months because of this ignorance.

See the links at the bottom of my sig, I support the same ideals as others on here.



Teaching your children about how to care for a pet is important - don't let them buy a pet that they are going to make suffer!

"So many people think that fish only live for a few months because of this ignorance." Interesting comment! I hadn't thought about it that way, but I'll bet that's true some of the time!

Regarding my own comments, I'd like to add that I don't particularly like to catagorize LFS owners and workers into a group. I keep finding as I get older that putting people into categories always seems to turn out to be a mistake and that we are better off trying to always treat people as individuals. I think the LFS folks run the full gamut of personalities and skills. It would be a mistake for us on TFF not to value the input of the many individuals who run local fish stores and who may have loved the hobby as much as us for many years. There's no reason they might not have valuable observations for us. Granted, they have the profit motive mixed in and certainly may be hardened in their sympathy toward the individual lives of fish stock, but I mostly perfer to not make assumptions about them.

I value local "brick&morter" stores as places where I can pick up things in a hurry and can examine real products prior to purchase. As such, I hate to see so many of the independent ones going out of business, especially as the current economic times begin hit more and more of them. When I go to a local "big-box" pet store, I like to be quiet, make my selections and try not to seek advice or get involved in giving it to others if possible. The rare times I visit an independent LFS that has some quality its a bit different. Then I may get engaged a bit more but am every watchful not to get into areas of disagreement. I've on occasion found LFS folks truly interested in many of the things we discuss routinely here on TFF and know they've been interested to know there are people out there as deeply into the hobby as we are.

When I've been a gatherings of fishkeeping hobbyists I've often found LFS folks to be among some of the most interesting. It doesn't mean you don't meet a fair number who are close-minded about some topics, but you also meet some open-minded ones. Probably my appoach deprives me of the occasional stimulating argument, but anyway, just felt like throwing in those 2 cents.

~~waterdrop~~