New 110l Tank.. stocking level suggestions.

[Qwooks]

Hi All,

I am fairly new to keeping fish. Previously had goldfish in a 40l
tank after really poor pet shop advice.... have rehomed them to someone with a 350l tank so am now going to upgrade mine to 110l.
(80cm x 50cm high x 35cm)

Once it is cycled I would like a mix of guppies, neon tetras, platys and a smaller variety of catfish.

Would like advice on how many of each would be best to get and should I get them all at once or introduce 1 type of fish at a time?
Am hoping to get all males to prevent any breeding causing overpopulation issues, but will accept any advice if you don't think this is the right thing to do.

Just want a tank with a nice variety of fish that my family will enjoy.

Thanks for any replies x

 

[fluttermoth]

First of all, you need to tell us whether your water is hard or soft. You have both hard water fish (guppies. platies) and soft water (neon tetras) on your list, and one or the other won't do well in the 'wrong' kind of water.

What ppm of ammonia are you cycling with?

 

[Qwooks]

First of all, you need to tell us whether your water is hard or soft. You have both hard water fish (guppies. platies) and soft water (neon tetras) on your list, and one or the other won't do well in the 'wrong' kind of water.

What ppm of ammonia are you cycling with?

@fluttermoth Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Looks like I have had bad advice again. Went to a specialist aquatics centre today to order my new tank and to discuss stocking options and they advised me that the fish above are all compatible by both water conditions and personality however, this is why i decided to join this forum as from reading previous thereads I can see that the collective knowedge here will always outstrip any shop advice. My water hardness is hard, but is CaCO3 levels are 228 ppm so it is close to medium - and my preference is for the guppies/platies, but would like a small sized shoal fish to go with them. Happy to accept suggestions on something that will work as an alternative.

re cycling my tank - i pick up the new tank on saturday.. I still have my old tank running albeit without any fish as of today. From online research and advice in the shop (hopefully they will get something right) I have been advised that I can cycle tank by squeezing the gunk from the sponge from my old filter into my new one, and then running both filters for a couple of weeks, and that I should use the water from my old tank for my new tank, and that this should be enough to cycle the tank without adding ammonia. My old tank has been running for 3 months since it was cycled.(i have also read that tetra safestart might be worth using to help speed things up but am not sure about doing this?) Again, I am very new to all this, so please tell me anything i need to do differently. I have no hurry to get my fish in the new tank before it is ready for them. I just want to have a tank of healthy and happy fish.I want to plan which fish I will want to have before setting the tank up so that I can make sure it is set up to suit their needs.

Thanks

 

[Byron]

Looks like I have had bad advice again. Went to a specialist aquatics centre today to order my new tank and to discuss stocking options and they advised me that the fish above are all compatible by both water conditions and personality however, this is why i decided to join this forum as from reading previous thereads I can see that the collective knowedge here will always outstrip any shop advice.

Re store advice...some stores are reliable, others certainly not. One must always keep in mind that the store is there to sell the fish, that is how they make a living and remain in business. A bit cynical perhaps, but sadly often the only motivation. If the fish live for a few months, then mysteriously die, well, you can always go back and buy more, they may think.

My water hardness is hard, but is CaCO3 levels are 228 ppm so it is close to medium - and my preference is for the guppies/platies, but would like a small sized shoal fish to go with them. Happy to accept suggestions on something that will work as an alternative.

This is moderately hard, about 12-13 dGH, so you have some nice options. Before getting to that, a quick comment on soft water and hard water fish, to divide them into the most basic requirements. Hard water fish require minerals dissolved in the water in order to carry out critical physiological functions. Soft water fish have no need for these, and having evolved over thousands of years they have sometimes severe problems with their physiology when kept long-term in other than soft or very soft water. Some fish species are so rt of in the middle, they have evolved to manage within a wider range, avoiding extremes however, provided the aquarium is stable and not fluctuating. I go go on for pages on this...suffice it to say, regardless of the species, it will always be healthier and thus "happier" in parameters for which nature designed it to operate. And here, it is best to know your source water parameters and plan accordingly, as it is not easy to adjust water parameters and being able to use water out of the tap for water changes, regular and emergency, saves a lot of trouble.

Livebearers will obviously be at home, as they all prefer moderately hard or harder water. A 30g (110 liter) tank is not large (to the fish we put in it) but you could have a nice group of platies, guppies, Endlers. Swordtails are best in longer tanks. Mollies (the last of the common livebearers I mention) too might prefer more space, but depending upon the other fish numbers one or two males could add some nice drama (thinking of the coal black varieties). I agree, males only, or you will very quickly be overrun with fry (with many females, all of the fry will never get eaten, they are so prolific).

Thinking of non-livebearers to add, some of the common cory catfish will be OK. The bronze, peppered, sterbai and panda are commercially raised so a bit more tolerant. Pandas need a bit of water flow from the filter, as they originate in small mountain streams in Peru and have an inherent need for flowing water to "play" in. So your filter enters the picture. The other species are not as fussy. Most tropicals like less rather than more current.

I don't know how far along you are with thinking of other things like the substrate, but some fish have preferences or needs. Corys for example should always be over sand, not gravel, so they can naturally sift it through their gills. Common play sand works very well; it is refined more than other sands so it has no sharpness, fish seem to like it, plants grow well in it, and it is very inexpensive. I use this in all my tanks.

re cycling my tank - i pick up the new tank on saturday.. I still have my old tank running albeit without any fish as of today. From online research and advice in the shop (hopefully they will get something right) I have been advised that I can cycle tank by squeezing the gunk from the sponge from my old filter into my new one, and then running both filters for a couple of weeks, and that I should use the water from my old tank for my new tank, and that this should be enough to cycle the tank without adding ammonia. My old tank has been running for 3 months since it was cycled.(i have also read that tetra safestart might be worth using to help speed things up but am not sure about doing this?) Again, I am very new to all this, so please tell me anything i need to do differently.

I won't get too involved in cycling advice but I will say that if you can get Tetra's SafeStart, do. This is a very good bacterial supplement. You could use this, once the tank is completely set up with everything but fish, and filter and heater are working correctly, and add a few fish. There is sufficient space that this cannot harm them. This avoids adding some form of pure ammonia, which is something I have never done, it can go wrong. That's all I'll say.

Byron.

 

[Qwooks]

Re store advice...some stores are reliable, others certainly not. One must always keep in mind that the store is there to sell the fish, that is how they make a living and remain in business. A bit cynical perhaps, but sadly often the only motivation. If the fish live for a few months, then mysteriously die, well, you can always go back and buy more, they may think.



This is moderately hard, about 12-13 dGH, so you have some nice options. Before getting to that, a quick comment on soft water and hard water fish, to divide them into the most basic requirements. Hard water fish require minerals dissolved in the water in order to carry out critical physiological functions. Soft water fish have no need for these, and having evolved over thousands of years they have sometimes severe problems with their physiology when kept long-term in other than soft or very soft water. Some fish species are so rt of in the middle, they have evolved to manage within a wider range, avoiding extremes however, provided the aquarium is stable and not fluctuating. I go go on for pages on this...suffice it to say, regardless of the species, it will always be healthier and thus "happier" in parameters for which nature designed it to operate. And here, it is best to know your source water parameters and plan accordingly, as it is not easy to adjust water parameters and being able to use water out of the tap for water changes, regular and emergency, saves a lot of trouble.

Livebearers will obviously be at home, as they all prefer moderately hard or harder water. A 30g (110 liter) tank is not large (to the fish we put in it) but you could have a nice group of platies, guppies, Endlers. Swordtails are best in longer tanks. Mollies (the last of the common livebearers I mention) too might prefer more space, but depending upon the other fish numbers one or two males could add some nice drama (thinking of the coal black varieties). I agree, males only, or you will very quickly be overrun with fry (with many females, all of the fry will never get eaten, they are so prolific).

Thinking of non-livebearers to add, some of the common cory catfish will be OK. The bronze, peppered, sterbai and panda are commercially raised so a bit more tolerant. Pandas need a bit of water flow from the filter, as they originate in small mountain streams in Peru and have an inherent need for flowing water to "play" in. So your filter enters the picture. The other species are not as fussy. Most tropicals like less rather than more current.

I don't know how far along you are with thinking of other things like the substrate, but some fish have preferences or needs. Corys for example should always be over sand, not gravel, so they can naturally sift it through their gills. Common play sand works very well; it is refined more than other sands so it has no sharpness, fish seem to like it, plants grow well in it, and it is very inexpensive. I use this in all my tanks.



I won't get too involved in cycling advice but I will say that if you can get Tetra's SafeStart, do. This is a very good bacterial supplement. You could use this, once the tank is completely set up with everything but fish, and filter and heater are working correctly, and add a few fish. There is sufficient space that this cannot harm them. This avoids adding some form of pure ammonia, which is something I have never done, it can go wrong. That's all I'll say.

Byron.

Thanks @Byron appreciate such a detailed reply and all the extra tips. I had been debating which substrate to use. The shop did mention that cory's need a softer substrate rather that gravel, think that is probably what I will go with. The filter in my tank doesnt generate much of a current. Not sure what term is used for this type of filter but the water comes out the top of it like a gentle waterfall rather than pushed out through a jet etc. we shall see how it goes once i have it up and running.

Still deciding what fish to get... am thinking scrap the idea of tetras or any tiny fish and just get more guppies.. maybe just stick to platys, guppies and small cory. Maybe 6 male guppies, 4 platys (2 10cm ones and 2 smaller 6 com ones) and 1 cory? will add the larger platys first (after tank has run for 1-2 weeks) as the ones I have seen are supposedly fairly hardy. Then add a couple more fish every couple of weeks.. hopefully this will help kee the tank nice and stable. There is so much to learn about keeping fish!!

 

[Byron]

Still deciding what fish to get... am thinking scrap the idea of tetras or any tiny fish and just get more guppies.. maybe just stick to platys, guppies and small cory. Maybe 6 male guppies, 4 platys (2 10cm ones and 2 smaller 6 com ones) and 1 cory? will add the larger platys first (after tank has run for 1-2 weeks) as the ones I have seen are supposedly fairly hardy. Then add a couple more fish every couple of weeks.. hopefully this will help kee the tank nice and stable. There is so much to learn about keeping fish!!

Corys must have a group, minimum five (for the common species that we are thinking of here, that get around 2 inches). Shoaling fish (as these are termed) are best acquired together, as a group. They will settle in better, and while not so relevant to corys, some other shoaling fish establish hierarchies and this can be very important so the entire group should be acquired together. Livebearers are not shoaling fish so this doesn't matter with them.

Adding the platy and guppies in stages is fine. I would get them settled, some of them anyway, before introducing corys.

A test kit if you haven't one yet is a good investment. The API liquid Master Combo has tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and this is all you really need. Ammonia and nitrite are critical until the tank is fully cycled and established; pH and nitrate tests are good to do periodically over time as sudden changes in either of these can indicate a problem.

Byron.

 

[Qwooks]

Corys must have a group, minimum five (for the common species that we are thinking of here, that get around 2 inches). Shoaling fish (as these are termed) are best acquired together, as a group. They will settle in better, and while not so relevant to corys, some other shoaling fish establish hierarchies and this can be very important so the entire group should be acquired together. Livebearers are not shoaling fish so this doesn't matter with them.

Adding the platy and guppies in stages is fine. I would get them settled, some of them anyway, before introducing corys.

A test kit if you haven't one yet is a good investment. The API liquid Master Combo has tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and this is all you really need. Ammonia and nitrite are critical until the tank is fully cycled and established; pH and nitrate tests are good to do periodically over time as sudden changes in either of these can indicate a problem.

Byron.

Again the store pointed out the cory catfish to me as they were smaller, along with bristlenose catfish? I asked about if they needed friends or would be fine solo and they said tey are best alone. Should the bristlenose also be homed as a group of might one of these be a better option for me? Appreciate they get a bit bigger so will have to reduce numbers of other fish, but would like a bottom dweller to give tank interest on all levels, and hoping they will help keep the lower levels a little cleaner too!

Already have a test kit from owning my previous goldfish... as they were in a small tank (only had them 3 months from being 2 inches long... doubled to 4 inches in that time!) I tested regualrly to make sure everything was ok for them. Had test strips at first but they seemed completely unreliable, so bought the API kit instead.

Re your suggestions of a couple of Mollies, I would love them as they are so pretty and have such variety of colours, but was advised that they would likely be a bit too nippy with the guppies? in the end, am not too fussed what fish I have as long as there is a nice variety of colours and sizes, and that they all get along and are relatively hardy and easy to keep as I am still a novice at this. I have also looked as Rasboras? and Danios? I could be quite happy to go without the guppies and have mollies instead if this would give me more options for other tank mates. Ahh.. so many choices!!

 

[Qwooks]

Ok... Following on from previous advice about water hardness have just been and looked at what the Rasboras and Danios need... Clearly not an option for a hardwater tank..

One quick question... I actually have access to hard and soft water at home and we have a water soften installed so one tap gives unsoftened tap water and the others have softened water (softened using a machine with salt blocks). Can the softened water be used for tanks? Is a softened water tank something worth thinking about?

Think I will head to the store tomorrow and have a really good look at all the fish... They do have cards for all of them that list water conditions, size, personality etc so will just educate myself more!

 

[Essjay]

Again the store pointed out the cory catfish to me as they were smaller, along with bristlenose catfish? I asked about if they needed friends or would be fine solo and they said tey are best alone. Should the bristlenose also be homed as a group of might one of these be a better option for me? Appreciate they get a bit bigger so will have to reduce numbers of other fish, but would like a bottom dweller to give tank interest on all levels, and hoping they will help keep the lower levels a little cleaner too!

Cories need to be kept in groups, bristlenoses can be kept alone. And in your size tank, more than one male bristlenose could cause problems.

Please bear in mind that bottom dwelling fish do have to be fed, they can't survive on left overs. Cories should be fed sinking pellets with some meat (or fish) content; bristlenoses should be fed sinking algae pellets or wafers.

One quick question... I actually have access to hard and soft water at home and we have a water soften installed so one tap gives unsoftened tap water and the others have softened water (softened using a machine with salt blocks). Can the softened water be used for tanks? Is a softened water tank something worth thinking about?

Water from this type of softener should not be used in a tank. They swap the hard minerals (calcium and magnesium) for sodium. Because they do not reduce the amount of minerals, just swap them, there are still too many things dissolved in the water for soft water fish. And very few natural fresh water sources have high levels of sodium (with the possible exception of the African Rift Lakes, but their water is not typical) so no fish have evolved to cope with these levels.
Use your unsoftened water.

 

[Byron]

I agree with essjay. Forget the softener.

I would recommend corys (a group of 5 minimum as I said, but given you have some space, more would be better, 7-8) over Bristlenose simply for interest. A group of corys bumbling around the substrate is an enjoyable sight for the aquarist.

Re the guppies/mollies, I was not aware the mollies were nippy, I would think the guppies more likely to be nippy. Given the health problems with guppies due to inbreeding, I personally would go with other livebearers. There is a lot of variety with platies, and then the Endlers, and the group of corys. I know I mentioned mollies previously, but I overlooked the GH and mollies should have harder water, so I wouldn't recommend it.

There are some other fish that would work, a few of the tetras can manage in moderately hard water...the Pristella comes to mind. This fish has a large geographic range in South America, and is found in soft and moderately hard water. If some of us put our minds to it, we could come up with other nice fish too.

Back to store data...always, always take this with a grain of salt, and confirm online before acquiring fish. I have seen tank cards here with some very misleading information. Shoaling fish needing only 3 for example, when it always should be six or more; you just cannot trust such information.

[Edited to clarify mollies nippy issue.]

Byron.

 

[Qwooks]

I agree with essjay. Forget the softener.

I would recommend corys (a group of 5 minimum as I said, but given you have some space, more would be better, 7-8) over Bristlenose simply for interest. A group of corys bumbling around the substrate is an enjoyable sight for the aquarist.

Re the guppies, I was not aware they were nippy, I would think the guppies more likely to be nippy. Given the health problems with guppies due to inbreeding, I personally would go with other livebearers. There is a lot of variety with platies, and then the Endlers, and the group of corys. I know I mentioned mollies previously, but I overlooked the GH and mollies should have harder water, so I wouldn't recommend it.

There are some other fish that would work, a few of the tetras can manage in moderately hard water...the Pristella comes to mind. This fish has a large geographic range in South America, and is found in soft and moderately hard water. If some of us put our minds to it, we could come up with other nice fish too.

Back to store data...always, always take this with a grain of salt, and confirm online before acquiring fish. I have seen tank cards here with some very misleading information. Shoaling fish needing only 3 for example, when it always should be six or more; you just cannot trust such information.

Byron.

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I have truely learnt a great deal. I think as this is my first "proper" tank I am going to make thing simple for myself and will probably just have tank full of Platies.. Have been looking at how many different patterns and colours they come in., and they really are very pretty. The seem to be quite hardy, have a better lifespan than the other livebearers, and most importantly are suitable for the water I have most readily available. Will cycle my tank as described above, and throw in some Tetra Safestart, then test the water and hopefully add 3 platy fish after 2 weeks. Have read it is better to have a mix of sex with a ratio of at least 1:2 male:female so will look to do this and get 1 guy and 2 girls. I know this means they will breed but as I understand it they will eat most of the offspring. If any survive my LFS have said they do take in surplus fishies! Guess my kids will be learning all about lifecycles imminently then. Will add more platys up to 9 total as and when i see ones that I like. Hopefully that way I wont overload my tank at any point.

I just dont think my setup will give the most optimum care for a catfish at this time... Much as I would like one.
I will see how the platys get on and I might add a few guppies at some point once the tank has been running for a few months. By then I will have more of a clue as to what I am doing so can make more informed decisions.

I dont feel ready to try managing live plants in the aquarium just yet, hopefully the platys won't mind plastic ones too much! I will post pics once my tank is set up and it has the first residents!

Thanks again.. am hoping to become a responsible fishkeeper and the advice has been really helpful!

 

[Byron]

Just be careful with male and female platy. While they will eat fry, they cannot get all of them. A female platy can produce 40+ fry roughly every month, so if you had for example six females, that's a lot of fry. And speaking of ratio, if you intend nine platy in total, three of these max should be male, the rest (six or seven) female. Male livebearers drive the females hard, and the more males there are, the worse, and they do not differentiate varieties so every male platy will see every female platy as a mate. And many fry will survive. As for stores taking them, they may say this but when the time comes things can change. Males only would eliminate this issue.

 

[hobby5]

Does your tank have lighting? If so I would very much recommend to put in some life plants. There are very robust and easy species. The tank will look so much better and they will do a lot for the biology of the tank and the well being of your fish. No reason to be afraid of trying. But imho without you would miss out on a big part of aquaristics.

 

[Qwooks]

Does your tank have lighting? If so I would very much recommend to put in some life plants. There are very robust and easy species. The tank will look so much better and they will do a lot for the biology of the tank and the well being of your fish. No reason to be afraid of trying. But imho without you would miss out on a big part of aquaristics.

This is my tank
https://fishkeeper.co.uk/product/aquatropic-80-aquarium-set
It has two fluorescent tubes for lighting in the hood. They seem quite bright.

I do love the look of planted aquariums, but to be honest, I have killed every houseplant I ever owned, so am a bit daunted by a planted aquarium. They mostly died from me forgetting to water them which won't be an issue here lol

What does keeping live plants in the aquarium entail? What do I need to keep them healthy ? What substrate should I get? Do I need to have the tank cycled first?

 

[Byron]

This is my tank
https://fishkeeper.co.uk/product/aquatropic-80-aquarium-set
It has two fluorescent tubes for lighting in the hood. They seem quite bright.

I do love the look of planted aquariums, but to be honest, I have killed every houseplant I ever owned, so am a bit daunted by a planted aquarium. They mostly died from me forgetting to water them which won't be an issue here lol

What does keeping live plants in the aquarium entail? What do I need to keep them healthy ? What substrate should I get? Do I need to have the tank cycled first?

Light is the single most important factor for live plants, and there are two aspects...intensity and spectrum. Aquatic plants, like terrestrial plants, have varying requirements when it comes to the light intensity so once we have the light determined, we only have to select plants suited to that light. You have two fluorescent tubes, and at the link you posted it says T8, so this sounds very good. Can you give me the length of the tubes, and the wattage? The wattage should be printed at one end of the tube. I use T8 fluorescent lighting so this data will help.

The spectrum is also important. Plants need red and blue wavelengths to drive photosynthesis, and adding green to the mix seems to improve things. The Kelvin (a number followed by a K) will tell me what you have, this also may be at the end of the tube (see if they are the same or different here) or on the instruction sheet or packaging. It is simple enough to buy new tubes to get the best spectrum if needed, depending what you now have.

Plants will grow in any substrate, the only problem being if it is for example large-grain sized gravel. But fine gravel (no larger than pea gravel) or sand works well. You do not need any so-called plant or enriched substrate. The substrate is more likely to affect fish; catfish like corys for instance should always have sand.

If you do decide on live plants, floating are always a wise addition as these are fast growing and the easiest, and being fast growing they use a lot of nutrients like the ammonia produced by fish. If you do have live plants, and especially floaters, I personally would not add any form of ammonia to "cycle" the tank, but let the plants deal with it. The bacterial supplement that came with the aquarium (according to that link) is fine to use once everything is running and you are ready for the first fish.

Byron.