Never Heard

[Animation]

Well i don't really get all my fish on rarity i prefer guppyxendler

 

[pica_nuttalli]

it's not about their value as "rarities", its about the ecological impact of dilluting the endler genetic pool.

because so many people choose to cross endlers and guppies, there are very few ways to acquire pure-line endlers. the difficult route is to find an honest, informed endler breeder. the easy route is to catch more from the wild.

endlers only live in two rivers on a tiny island in the caribbean. that's it. the endlers in these rivers are vulnerable to pollution, invasive species, predation, and human depletion of the fish population for the aquarium trade. if you're just going to take your endlers and breed them to guppies, what was the point of digging them out of the wild? their genetic contributions have been completely removed from sustaining the wild population so that you can recreate a hybrid that many other irresponsible people have already made.

its easy to dillute endler's with guppies. just add water. the hard thing to do is find and maintain pure-line endlers without furthering the destruction of the wild population.

 

[aardvarkfromspace]

If you want to breed guppies with endlers do it. Everyone has their own opinion.. do what you want to do, not what someone else tells you to do.

 

[dwarfgourami]

If you want to breed guppies with endlers do it. Everyone has their own opinion.. do what you want to do, not what someone else tells you to do.

This attitude has contributed to the extinction of a fair few species over the last couple of centuries.

There are people who believe that endlers are actually extinct in the wild, or will shortly be so, due to the pollution from a rubbish dump near their native lagoon. If this story is true, then the endlers currently in the hobby trade take on a new significance, as they (and any endlers kept by scientific institutions and aquariums) will be the only chance to ensure the survival of this rather lovely little fish. I am not against hybridising in the normal run of things, as long as it's done responsibly by breeders who understand what they're doing, but this does seem to me to be a bit of a special case.

 

[Animation]

Exactly ardarvark, i'll be paying for the endlers.. Will you lot? No so why bother trying to tell me all of that- i personally (MY OPINION) think they look better cross-bread so that's what i'm going to do regardless, i'll post pic's of them once i have bred them

 

[Annastasia]

Why not just cross Fancy Guppies with Feeder Guppies? Feeders and Endlers look almost identical, yet you aren't actually hybridising. Seems like a good compromise to me...Or buy some that have already been hybridised. Why do you have to do it yourself, when it's really not a good idea?

If you actually do go ahead with the Endlers, make sure you specify they are hybrids, should you sell them not Endlers. But I really suggest you read everyone's posts through again, and think about this.

Is this:

(Taken from Aquabid auction: http/www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auc...rers&1136605157)

Really that much pretty then this?:

Enough to risk extinction?

But at the end of the day...your fish. We're just trying to help you make the right decision. In the end, it's up to you.

 

[Synirr]

There is absolutely no reason to hybridize endlers with guppies, and personally Animation, I find your arguments in favour of it very juvenile. There's no way of telling exactly what you'd get in terms of colour forms when crossing endlers with guppies, so saying they're "prettier" is too general and is not always going to be the case. Besides that, hell, you can just go out and BUY endler-guppy hybrids if you want, and that way you'd KNOW they'd be pretty because you picked them out yourself. Seems to me you just want a fun little project and don't give a flip what implications it has for the endler species.

 

[Ben]

Yellow Labidochromis Caeruleus Cichlids look good with my yellow betta, and because they look good i'm gonna put the Lab in my bettas 2.5 gal and watch them breed



Sarcasm.....man's greatest quality (unlike breeding out endlers)

DD

 

[Katchan]

Like dwarf dude said, it's not that simple. You can't just stick an angel with a plec and tell them to breed lol.

Trevo

Why not, I want my "Plegel" and my "Angestomus", and I want them now



Andrew

 

[Katchan]

For those of you forgetting the tittle of this section it is

Hybrid Fish
Fish whose parents are not the same species. No flaming permitted.

while there hasnt been any flaming yet, your damn close with the shreds your ripping out of animation, if you dont agree with animations intents maybe you should be stating your argument then leaving it at that or not post at all, above all please leave all personal comments aside

Andrew

edit in - you may also wish to peruse the pinned topic "Hybrid forum rules "

PS I have no views one way or the other on where this topic went, so please dont think I'm defending animation because I'm pro-guppy endler cross,

 

[dwarfgourami]

For those of you forgetting the tittle of this section it is

Hybrid Fish
Fish whose parents are not the same species. No flaming permitted.

while there hasnt been any flaming yet, your damn close with the shreds your ripping out of animation, if you dont agree with animations intents maybe you should be stating your argument then leaving it at that or not post at all, above all please leave all personal comments aside

Andrew

edit in - you may also wish to peruse the pinned topic "Hybrid forum rules "

PS I have no views one way or the other on where this topic went, so please dont think I'm defending animation because I'm pro-guppy endler cross,

A good point, Katchan, and for this very reason I was very careful to explain that I am not anti-hybrid in general and to state my specific reasons for disapproving of this particular hybridisation only; we should remember that this is the hybrid section and if we dislike hybrids altogether we should stay away from it.

On the other hand, maybe Animation should remember that the whole forum is about promoting the responsible care for fish, and if his attitude is 'I don't want advice because it's my money', then it is doubtful that he will get much pleasure or instruction from the forum.

Several members have taken great care to explain their reasons in detail without personal comment; they could have done with a more courteous reply from Animation.

 

[Animation]

I wnat to hybrid fish, this seems like the easiest option so i am going to go for it, the endlers will still be in the tank so can also breed with each other

 

[sylvia]

The attitude you are taking is extremely irresponsible. What will you do with your fry? if you sell them as endler's you'll be adding to the miss-match of genes floating around and restricting the number of pure endler's. It's an extremely selfish thing to do. If you go ahead with it anyway, at least promise to sell them on as fancy guppies (guppies are already endler's hybrids for the most part).

There is no point breeding endler's with guppies when you can keep a small tank of pure endler's and even make some money off selling them sicne endler's are quite rare.

What you get from teh hybrids is something that looks like your average fancy guppy like those on the top row here: http/guppyindo.com/Gallery3.html Like I said, there's no point hybridising these two fish when you can already get them in abundance at your LFS.

Platy with swordtail is also pretty pointless. The fry look like large platies with some having short swords. These are the very easiest hybrid to produce IMO. If you don't want to try something challenging, do this cross. It's much less damaging as platies and swords are already quite messed up for the most part.

In fact, the platies you own are likely to be hybrids themselves. The same goes for fancy guppies - most have some endler in them.
In fact, a lot of 'common' fish are hybrids - that includes mollies and several pleco species, as well as platies, guppies, variatus platies and swordtails. Not to mention a large number of 'assorted' mbuna cichlids are hybrids.

If you want to try breeding a hybrid that's worth your time, try the guppy X molly. It's a little more difficult but it's much better to do this as it's safer for the environment as well since it's unlikely they'll reproduce into second generations and it would be close to impossible in the wild. Plus the product would be a lot more interesting.

edit@ BTW, you won;t be able to tell which fry are pure endler's and which are guppy X endler's hybrids in teh first generation. They look almost identical - this is precisely why they are a problem - and also the reason it's so entirely pointless to breed them.

 

[Animation]

But i will also buy a seperate tank for baby endlers to reproduce also making the numbers come up a bit- if i buy the endlers they are now home fish NEVER WILL BE WILD AGAIN regardless if i choose not to buy them they are still never going to be back in the wild- enough people have endlers so if they do go extinct in the wild there is most liekly goiing to be a scheme to release more

 

[diademhill]

But i will also buy a seperate tank for baby endlers to reproduce also making the numbers come up a bit- if i buy the endlers they are now home fish NEVER WILL BE WILD AGAIN regardless if i choose not to buy them they are still never going to be back in the wild- enough people have endlers so if they do go extinct in the wild there is most liekly goiing to be a scheme to release more

If a guppy male has ever been in a tank with an Endler female, none of that females offspring, EVER, can be guaranteed to be pure Endlers.
There is no way of telling if fry are Endlers, guppies or hybrids. The only way to be certain is to never mix the two - or if you do mix them to consider the progeny, however much they look like Endlers, as guppies.

The risk to the species comes when someone gets hold of some hybrids that look like the Endler parent and mistakes them for pure Endlers. That is how the species gets polluted & lost.

This has already happened with some cichlids from Lake Victoria - extict in the wild and no pure ones in aquaria.
This is why you see the frequent warnings about not to sell/give to shops any hybrids. If you must produce them you need to be prepared to house them forever.