Just call me Fish Killer, Terror of Guppies

[purple_drazi]

I don't understand what's going on.
I've lost 4 panda cats and 8 guppies over the last 3 weeks. Fishing out the dead body has practically turned into a morning ritual. I thought neons were supposed to be sensitive so that if I was going to lose anybody it would have been them but I've had 9 in there for the last week and a half and they're fine. So far.

I did a fishless cycle in September, then I put 3 platys in for 3 weeks before I added any other fish. As for plants, the tank has got 1 Anubias barteri, 2 Ambulia, a Tropica Crypt and a Windelov in it. The test results have been steady since the end of September.
ammonia 0
nitrites 0
nitrates had been 0 since the end of September but were 10 ppm when I tested on Saturday and Monday.
ph is 7.2

Bio-wheel stirs up the water nicely. I'm doing a 15% water change once a week and siphoning the waste off of the gravel. I'm feeding a bit of flake crumbled up, or freeze-dried brine shrimp, or a couple of crushed pellets, once a day, only what they can eat in 2 minutes.

Temp was 80F and I read that the temp should be 72-79F so on Saturday I gradually lowered it over the day. It's 76F now. I was hoping that maybe that was the solution but I found another panda cat dead this morning.

Are they getting enough food? Are they getting too much? Could this be a bacterial problem? If it is, will treating it damage the good bacteria that are in the tank?

I watch them closely in the tank and there's never any sign of anything wrong, no ich, no velvet, no fuzzy white stuff... just normal fish swimming around and I've closely examined the dead fish and there's never any sign of anything wrong. The only thing I did see was that one of the guppies had clamped fins before he died.

Just call me
Fish Killer.

 

[aloaring]

Wish i could help but it truly does sound that you have done everything correctly. . What you could do is take a sample of water to your local LFS and make sure that your own readings were correct. Not sure why your nitrates have gone so high though and that is the likely cause of the deaths. Keep on doign the water changes in the mean time that shoudl reduce the nitrates!

 

[thapsus]

There is something wrong in your nitrates. You should always have nitrates in your tank. It is 0 only when the tank is not cycled. Maybe your test kit is outdated.

Could there be something wrong with your tapwater? Ask from waterworks if they clorinate the water. Do you use declorinator? You could also test if there is copper in your tapwater.

If your tapwater is ok, then you could try to make bigger water change. Maybe there too much phosphates in the water...

Tricky situation How big is your tank by the way?

thapsus

 

[WILDER]

What is the ph of the store where you are getting fish from to the ph of your tank.

 

[purple_drazi]

You should always have nitrates in your tank. It is 0 only when the tank is not cycled.

I've got a 12g tank with lots of plants and I was told that the plants were the reason the nitrate reading was 0. I actually bought a new nitrate test kit last week because I didn't trust the old one and while the first test with it showed a reading of 0, just like the old one, the second and third tests are showing 10ppm. I was told that the nitrate level in a well planted aquarium should be between 20-40 ppm so I thought I was ok.

 

[purple_drazi]

Do you use declorinator? You could also test if there is copper in your tapwater.

for sure on the declorinator. I'm using Big Al's Multi-Purpose Aquarium Water Conditioner, replaces slime coat, contains aloe, removes chlorine and buffers the PH. I've never tested for copper though...

What is the ph of the store where you are getting fish from to the ph of your tank.

They say they don't do anything to alter the PH and they use it just the way it is. It's really, really high in this area though, I have a PH test kit and the colour is practically off the scale so the PH is at least 7.6, the test kit doesn't go any higher.
I know that the fish are adjusting to a new PH so I thought I was taking it really slowly. I dunno, maybe I'm not going slowly enough? When I bring new fish home I pour all but 1/2c. of the store water out of the bag and float it for an hour, then I add 1 ounce of tank water every 1/2 hour for 5 or 6 hours. The various fish that I've got all require a PH on the soft to neutral side. I thought that having a neutral PH which is closer to their ideal requirements would be better for them than staying with the store water.
Or have I got it wrong?

btw: thanks for your replies.. I've been working so hard at this and am getting a bit discouraged about being responsible for killing off so many fish!


(later)
I just called the lspecialtyfs I deal with and the manager of the fish dept says he can't think of anything but a bacterial infection. The store's PH is 7.4 and tank temps are 78F so it's not too far off of mine. He said I was doing a really careful job of introducing the fish, more careful than he does, so that shouldn't be a problem.
He said neons are generally more suseptible to parasites than bacteria so that could be why they are ok while the others are dying. He suggested watching the fish I have for a couple of weeks and if they die, not to get any more for a week or more. The theory is that if they don't have a host the bacteria will die out. He suggested against medicating the tank. It's not good for the water quality, kills off the good bacteria and stresses the fish.

I had no idea keeping fish was so complicated.

 

[WILDER]

How many fish do you keep in the 12gal, fish could of not been very good stock in the first place, or a bacteria infection, try water changes if you are still losing them in a week, I would use an anti internal bacteria medicine by interpet, hope this helps.

 

[thapsus]

Plants don't actually use that much nitrate. It is attested that plants keep the nitrates at 0 in 55 gallon aquarium with normal stocking only if you remove weekly 2,7 kg of leafmass. Also plants only use nitrate if they have enought light and carbon dioxide.

I will post the research about plants and nitrates when I find it again.

I still think it's weird that you have so little nitrate, because your tank is not understocked. With that amount of fish I would presume that your nitrates raise from 10 to 20 or more in a week. What kind of watertest do you use by the way, and how big were the weekly water changes again?

thapsus

 

[BobK]

Just grasping at straws, but did you ask the lfs if anyone else was complaining about fish dying? Maybe they got a bad batch of fish.

 

[purple_drazi]

How many fish do you keep in the 12gal

It's kind of hard to tell because the population keeps changing through attrition! but now I've got 9 neons, 2 guppys and 1 panda cat. Generally I've tried to understock, like having 3 guppys and 3 pandas, rather than push it.

What kind of watertest do you use by the way, and how big were the weekly water changes again?

the tests are Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. Water change is 15% a week.

Maybe they got a bad batch of fish.

I didn't ask. I've seen them not sell fish that they said looked under the weather so that doesn't seem likely, to be honest. Though it would be nice if it was somebody else's fault and not mine!!

 

[SarahBravo]

Everybody's advice is sound, it's really difficult to say what to do in this situation as there are no symptons. My rule is 'When in doubt, pour in Melafix' and pimafix too if you can get it. It won't affect your water quality or your good bacteria, and provides a natural disinfectant and bactericide effect. And the melafix smells good too! But don;t take too big a sniff of the pimafix or we might be fishing you outta the tank. Hope your fishies make it, let us know how you're getting on.

HTH

Sarah

 

[Discomafia]

But don;t take too big a sniff of the pimafix or we might be fishing you outta the tank.

 

[-cAtFiSh-]

And the melafix smells good too!

its sure does!

purple_drazi dont worry too much about your pandas dying. they are meant to be very sensitive to water quality. i learnt the hard way

 

[purple_drazi]

dont worry too much about your pandas dying. they are meant to be very sensitive to water quality

whaa!! but they're so cute!

otoh, nobody's died since what was it, Monday? Tuesday? maybe I'm on a roll!
jeez, it's pathetic.

 

[Sid]

Purple_drazi try not to get discouraged, I also think that panda cories are very delicated fish. I have a bunch, but about one a month dies. I even have them in different tanks