It's been a long time

Pareeeee

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...but I'm finally back. Some of the "old timers" might remember me as "characin_gal" back in the early 2000's.

Anyway, I finally got a "real" tank again (I've only had a 10gal for the last several years). The new tank is 33gal with PFS substrate - going to try out a convex aquascape since I've mostly ever done jungle aquascapes up until this point.

Still cycling, but coming along. Can't wait to get more plants, and eventually fish!


My 10 Gal:
 

PheonixKingZ

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Hello and welcome back to the forum! :hi:

You should enter your bigger tank in the TOTM contest! Please do so by clicking the banner at the top right of the forum. You could win a cool banner in your profile area like me.

Your 10g tank looks very good as well. I love the Star Trek ship. :wub:

Tag me if you ever need help with bettas or live plants. Hope to see you around the forum! :fish:
 
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Pareeeee

Pareeeee

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Betta with fish? :blink: Bettas aren't community fish and white clouds aren't tropical fish either.
That betta has been in there with the White Clouds for over 2 years now and has never harmed them - and vice versa. If you are wise about tankmates, bettas can get along with other fish. This is not a heated tank, it sits at room temp and has flourished for years. The White Clouds were originally feeder fish for $0.25 ea and are now pretty much full-grown.
 

PheonixKingZ

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That betta has been in there with the White Clouds for over 2 years now and has never harmed them - and vice versa. If you are wise about tankmates, bettas can get along with other fish. This is not a heated tank, it sits at room temp and has flourished for years. The White Clouds were originally feeder fish for $0.25 ea and are now pretty much full-grown.
Bettas can be kept with other fish, it is just not a good idea.

It makes no sense to separate them now, because they have been together for so long. But in the future, do not fix regular fish with bettas.
 
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Pareeeee

Pareeeee

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Bettas can be kept with other fish, it is just not a good idea.

It makes no sense to separate them now, because they have been together for so long. But in the future, do not fix regular fish with bettas.
I guess it's an unpopular opinion but I have always kept bettas with peaceful community fish since the early 2000's and never really had any problems. Once the bettas adjust, they come out of their shell and become extremely inquisitive about everything around them. They drape themselves over the plants, stare incredulously at the shrimp, watch the other fish with curiosity.

I should add that is is important to avoid any fin-nippers (tetras, barbs, certain algae eaters), and avoid anything that the betta can mistake for competition (they do NOT like other anabantoids - ie gouramis, nor do they like guppies due to their large tails and bright colours - bright coloured fish are usually a big no-no).
 

Salty&Onion

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I guess it's an unpopular opinion but I have always kept bettas with peaceful community fish since the early 2000's and never really had any problems. Once the bettas adjust, they come out of their shell and become extremely inquisitive about everything around them. They drape themselves over the plants, stare incredulously at the shrimp, watch the other fish with curiosity.

I should add that is is important to avoid any fin-nippers (tetras, barbs, certain algae eaters), and avoid anything that the betta can mistake for competition (they do NOT like other anabantoids - ie gouramis, nor do they like guppies due to their large tails and bright colours - bright coloured fish are usually a big no-no).
Though they should not be kept with other fish no matter what.
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Byron

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Since (and only since) I got tagged, I will respond. And do so by citing what I took the time to write to explain things for another member.

Betta splendens seems to live solitary in its natural habitat which is still and sluggish waters, including rice paddies, swamps, roadside ditches, streams and ponds. Such an environment is not conducive to fish that require oxygenated waters so one can expect few if any non-anabantid species to live in such habitats. During the dry season, most Bettas are able to bury themselves in the bottom of their dried up habitat. There, they can live in moist cavities until water once again fills the depression during a rainy period. The fish can survive even if thick, clay mud is all that is left of the water. They do not survive total drying out of the bottom. (Vierke 1988) There are very few fish species, and none that are found in the same habitats, that can manage life in such conditions, which is further evidence that the B. splendens is most likely a solitary species.

All anabantids are territorial; male bettas instinctively fight each other in defending their territory. Selective breeding over many years has produced fish with a heightened sense of territory defense, which explains the common name of Siamese Fighting Fish. Fish fights for money is a "sport," if you want to use the term for such animal cruelty. This means the Bettas we see in stores have an even greater propensity to literally kill each other given the chance. For a fish that instinctively lives alone, and believes it must defend its territory to survive--both traits that are programmed into the species' DNA--this aggressiveness is likely to extend to any fish that dares enter the Betta's territory, which in most cases will be the tank space. And forcing the fish to "live" under such conditions is frankly cruel and inhumane.

Individual fish within a species do not always adhere to the "norm" for the species; this is true of all animals, including humans. But with fish, responsible aquarists should research the fish's behaviours, traits, and requirements, and then aim to provide accordingly. "Expectations" are as I said above programmed into the DNA, and we are not going to change them just because we may want to have a Betta in the tank with "x" fish species. Sometimes the Betta seems to co-operate with our experiment, but in many of these situations it may not last for long, eventually if not immediately. Fish that do succumb are likely being severely stressed, unseen to the aquarist until it is too late.

If the Betta does not first attack the intruders, the intruders may go after the Betta. It is a two-way street, and in either situation it is the Betta that loses in the end. Severe stress causing increased aggression, or conversely severe withdrawal from being targeted by the other fish. And physical aggression is not the only concern; fish release pheromones and allomones, chemical communication signals that other fish read, and these can promote aggression that will in time weaken the fish to the point of death. There is no reason to risk the fish in one's attempt to prove science wrong.

Edit addition, forgot to mention this...the present situation may be one of those few in which this worked. We cannot say this with any certainty, because we cannot assess what effect this may have had on the fish. But all may be well.
 
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Pareeeee

Pareeeee

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Since (and only since) I got tagged, I will respond. And do so by citing what I took the time to write to explain things for another member.

Betta splendens seems to live solitary in its natural habitat which is still and sluggish waters, including rice paddies, swamps, roadside ditches, streams and ponds. Such an environment is not conducive to fish that require oxygenated waters so one can expect few if any non-anabantid species to live in such habitats. During the dry season, most Bettas are able to bury themselves in the bottom of their dried up habitat. There, they can live in moist cavities until water once again fills the depression during a rainy period. The fish can survive even if thick, clay mud is all that is left of the water. They do not survive total drying out of the bottom. (Vierke 1988) There are very few fish species, and none that are found in the same habitats, that can manage life in such conditions, which is further evidence that the B. splendens is most likely a solitary species.

All anabantids are territorial; male bettas instinctively fight each other in defending their territory. Selective breeding over many years has produced fish with a heightened sense of territory defense, which explains the common name of Siamese Fighting Fish. Fish fights for money is a "sport," if you want to use the term for such animal cruelty. This means the Bettas we see in stores have an even greater propensity to literally kill each other given the chance. For a fish that instinctively lives alone, and believes it must defend its territory to survive--both traits that are programmed into the species' DNA--this aggressiveness is likely to extend to any fish that dares enter the Betta's territory, which in most cases will be the tank space. And forcing the fish to "live" under such conditions is frankly cruel and inhumane.

Individual fish within a species do not always adhere to the "norm" for the species; this is true of all animals, including humans. But with fish, responsible aquarists should research the fish's behaviours, traits, and requirements, and then aim to provide accordingly. "Expectations" are as I said above programmed into the DNA, and we are not going to change them just because we may want to have a Betta in the tank with "x" fish species. Sometimes the Betta seems to co-operate with our experiment, but in many of these situations it may not last for long, eventually if not immediately. Fish that do succumb are likely being severely stressed, unseen to the aquarist until it is too late.

If the Betta does not first attack the intruders, the intruders may go after the Betta. It is a two-way street, and in either situation it is the Betta that loses in the end. Severe stress causing increased aggression, or conversely severe withdrawal from being targeted by the other fish. And physical aggression is not the only concern; fish release pheromones and allomones, chemical communication signals that other fish read, and these can promote aggression that will in time weaken the fish to the point of death. There is no reason to risk the fish in one's attempt to prove science wrong.
Thank you for the information; I am a little confused because what I have observed seems to contradict some of the information, but maybe you can explain to me why this is so. Almost all of my bettas have lived for an average of 3 years, and they were all full grown at purchase. I haven't had problems with betta aggression (except when I was younger and inexperienced I tried keeping them with guppies...which was a...regretful decision). My current betta has never shown increased aggression, seems to enjoy squeezing through the live plants, watching the shrimp, and pretty much ignores the minnows. I have never seen the minnows go after the betta. Have I just had the luck of the draw with my choices? Is it all coincidence and have all my bettas just happened to be less-aggressive specimens?

I'm very curious because back in the day when I was very active on forums (including here) I can't recall ever being 'told off' for having a betta in my tropical tanks. Some people found it interesting but never said it was a bad thing to do. Many were long-time aquarists and breeders whom I respected.

Truly was not expecting this thread to turn into this... :/
 

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