Is He Ill?

Frozen foods tend to be meat based and have a high protein level. This leaches into the water more readily than dry foods and creates a higher ammonia level. It isn't a real big problem because most filters have enough beneficial bacteria to break it down pretty quickly.

Quite often when a fish (or any animal for that matter) is treated with worms, they will suddenly become really skinny after the treatment. This is due to the worms being expelled from the body. Sometimes the fish or animal is so full of worms that they appear to have a normal shaped abdomen, yet it is shaped by lots of parasites. When the animal is treated the worms die and are expelled, and this can make it look really skinny because there is nothing inside it to make it look nice and fat. Over the next few weeks the animal or fish will gradually fill out and start to look normal again, but this time it is because the fish is digesting its food properly and is not full of worms.
I saw an extreme case of this when I treated a tank of fish I had. There were a few large female mollies in the tank that had never bred in the year or so I had them. The fish looked normal and were always fat but never produced young. I didn't see any worms hanging out of them and didn't think they had any problems. Anyway I treated the tank as a precaution because I had been feeding a lot of live daphnia and the pond they were collected from had water birds and snails in it. (These are often part of many worm's life cycle).
About an hour after I treated the tank for worms I noticed one of the mollies doing long red poos. Upon closer inspection I could see these 1inch long red worms being expelled. 24 hours later and all the fish in the tank looked skinny, especially the female mollies. I treated the tank again a week later and within a few weeks of that all the fish looked nice and fat, and within a couple of months there were baby fish everywhere. Even tho the fish looked healthy, they were artificially fattened by the worms living in their digestive tract. Once the worms were expelled the fish lost all their shape and looked really skinny.
 
I see. How often do you think I should feed frozen food at this time?

I hope those worms haven't done too much damage. Do they feed off the fishes food intake or internal tissue?
 
If fish have worms or are skinny after being treated for worms, then I try to feed them with frozen food each day. Once they are better (after about a month) then you could cut it back to 3 or 4 times a week, less often if you like. Generally tho the fish do much better on frozen food compared to dry food.

The worms either feed off the tissue lining the intestine (uncommon) or more likely they bite through the intestinal wall and feed off the blood, which is why many worms are red in colour. Once the worm has bitten through the intestinal wall they hang on and feed from that spot. The more worms in a fish the more blood it loses and the more scarring that occurs on the intestinal wall. The more scarring on the intestine the harder it is for the animal to absorb nutrients from the food it eats.
A few worms aren't a problems and many animals live with them all their lives and suffer no real problems. It's only when there are too many worms for the animal and then it has problems. The intestines also usually heal up pretty well after a worm infestation.
 
Very interesting post again Colin, thanks!

Ok, slight problem...

I decided to test my water this evening and the results are as follows:

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0.1ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm
pH: 7.0

I have the API Freshwater Master Test Kit and the nitrite test should show sky blue when at 0. I did the test and thought the result was 0 at first as the colour was so close to sky blue and the next colour up (purple) is 0.25ppm. So I tested some tap water aswell and it seems there is a very slight colour difference. Is this amount harmful? I double dose Seachem Prime at water changes which detoxifies it. I double dosed the entire tank just to be sure as up to 5 times the normal dose can be used during a nitrite spike. It seems my nitrospira colonies have taken a battering with all these treatments!
 
a tiny amount of nitrite, less than 0.25ppm, can occur if you test the water within an hour of feeding the fish. If it was only a very slight trace then it is unlikely to cause any major problems in the short term but if the levels persist for weeks or months then it will cause problems to the fish.
 
Just to update, he seems to be doing ok. Still quite dormant in the day. Perks up in the evening and is eating well. Still doing a lot of scraping though. Very aggresively swimming into the gravel and into ornaments. What could this be with no visible symptoms of external disease? Continuing to dose with flubenol weekly.
 
rubbing on the gravel and ornaments can be whitespot but that would show up as white dots on the fish. It can also be caused by costia, chilodonella or trichodina. These often appear as a cream or grey patch or area on the fish. It can also be the fish simply has a skin irritation and wants to scratch it.

If none of the other fish are rubbing or flicking then just wait and see how things go over the next week. If the rubbing gets worse over the next couple of days, or the fish develops white dots or cream or grey patching, then treat it with something like Waterlife Protozin but be careful with how much you use because of the catfish.
 
How are the fish doing.
 
He's doing alright thanks! Finished dosing the flubenol last week. I'm not sure whether to put another dose in the tank to be sure?!?! Still quite inactive at times but generally seems to be in good health. He's eating well, friendly etc. Thanks for your help guys!
 
do you have a new picture of him? we might be able to spot something on him.

if you have treated the tank each week for the recommended course of treatment then you can stop using the flubenol.
 
I just read all the posts from everyone because I too have keyholes that have been acting funny. When I first got them in Nov I thought they might have flukes. I treated them they were doing great for a month then one got an illness. I treated them with maracyn he got better then the other one stared acting funny. So they are in a hospital tank and like you said yours are active during the evening mine come out during the day at noon and act fine. Then latter they just hide out and look stressed. I also have noticed extra slime but no flashing. I did notice black splotches on their fins.

I'm fed up I have no clue what is going on. Some days I think they are fine then they just sit around. I check the water everyday it's all good ammonia 0 nitrites 0 nitrates .05 ph 7.4 I do a 40% water change every week.
I don't want to treat them any more because I feel like they have had enough. I'm wondering if too much meds have messed them up and made them weak and that sometimes the medication is worst then the problem. So I'm very interested to know how yours are.

I
 
Hi Snowflake

do you gravel clean the tank when you do a water change?
do you clean the filter once a month or every 6 months? Filters should be done about once a month. Clean filters help keep the water clean.
Dirty gravel and dirty filters can encourage harmful pathogens to grow and build up in the tank. If the fish are already in a weakened condition they will be more likely to pick up these harmful bugs and have problems.
Excessive use of medication will damage the fish's immune system. Most liquid medications have formalin/ formaldehyde in and this is real nasty stuff. Long term use does cause damage.

You can usually help improve the fish's health by feeding it a varied diet. Offer them frozen brineshrimp, bloodworms, daphnia, prawn and whitebait. Prawn is the best out of those but a combination is better still. You can also feed them a good quality flake or pellet food.
Feed the fish 2-3 times a day but monitor the water quality as the extra food will cause the nitrates to go up faster.
 
Mine is ok now. He seems a lot better now i've done a few water changes since treatment with the Flubenol. Still spends a lot of time sat around though. :unsure: I've read they like their rest and someone had actually written they thought theirs was dead because it was so still on its side and inactive! Maybe it's something to do with sleep interruption from tankmates so they make up for it in the day?!?! When he's out and about he looks absolutely fine now. Fins fully out and he's very friendly. What tanks do you have snowflake? Maybe they're more stressed being in the hospital tank. As for the black blotches, mine develops these if he's ripped a fin. Seems like part of the healing process, then they fade.
 

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