I'm Back, And A Little Rusty...

[DanTheFishMan11]

Hi guys I'm back, after a two year break... I have since regained my love for fish and want to have a summer project, I'm looking for help with what measurements and stuff and help with what I could stock maybe some angels in and also what I can keep with angels, so angels are pretty much the key feature at the moment, thanks for any help in advance.

 

[LyraGuppi]

Are you looking to breed angels or just keep them?
 
Welcome back, btw!

 

[DanTheFishMan11]

Not quite sure yet, it's a possibility though...
I remember certain names now.

 

[Byron]

Angelfish are shoaling fish by nature, meaning that they live in groups and will form a distinct hierarchy.  A 4-foot in length tank (55g) is minimum for a small group of five or six.  The thing to keep in mind though is that one or more pairs may likely form, and life for the others could get rather harried.  In a tank smaller than this, though only a foot less frankly, you could house either a lone angelfish or a bonded mated pair.
 
As for tankmates, they need to be sedate like the angels (as opposed to active swimmers), large enough not to be eaten, and peaceful so they don't fin nip.
 
Byron.

 

[DanTheFishMan11]

Thanks, I'm just contemplating ideas and different types of fish I would like, Angel fiah, the more I look into them, seem a bit of a pain, but I'm looking for a nice centre piece type fish, any ideas?

 

[Gvilleguy]

Dan the Man - welcome back! Have you ever kept Rams? They tend to stay near the bottom, but I enjoyed them for several years as my centerpiece fish. After my Bolivians passed on, I got two angels a year ago and, by blind luck, they ended up becoming a mated pair in my 3 foot wide 40 gallon. I like them as they are very active on all levels of the tank, and they breed like rabbits every 10 days - which is just interesting to watch.
 
Their tank mates are Rasboras, Danios, and Neons. They all get along very well. My Neons are mature, which is probably the only reason they have not been eaten by the angels. I think if I were to introduce a young Neon it would become dinner. So no more Neons in my tank.
 
There's a link in my signature for my live tank cam if you want to see the angels in action.

 

[DanTheFishMan11]

I have had rams before actually, forgot about those, electric blue ones could be nice!

 

[DanTheFishMan11]

I have decided that I'm not going to build the tank as the acrylic is far too expensive although I'm looking for recommendations for tanks, I have also decide that I will stick Bolivian rams.

 

[Gvilleguy]

Good choice on Bolivians...

 

[Byron]

I have decided that I'm not going to build the tank as the acrylic is far too expensive although I'm looking for recommendations for tanks, I have also decide that I will stick Bolivian rams.

 
I obviously have no idea of your level of knowledge, so bear with me if I state what is obvious to you.  If you are asking the tank size for maintaining Bolivian Rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus), it depends upon the sort of set-up you intend.  
 
This species is an excellent solitary cichlid in community tanks, probably the best among the cichlids.  I have a male M. altispinosus in my 5-foot 115g Amazon Riverscape tank who is well into his seventh year now, which is long past the average for this species.  The minimum tank size for a solitary specimen is around 30 gallons, having a 30-inch length.
 
A pair that are bonded would be fine in this sized tank, but only if bonded [I'll explain this if asked].  A 3-foot tank would be preferable however, and necessary for any more, meaning 3-4.  Beyond that, you are looking at 4-foot tanks.
 
Byron.

 

[DanTheFishMan11]

Thanks, but yeah I know this, although what size would you recommend for a good community tank, with a bonded pair?

 

[Byron]

Thanks, but yeah I know this, although what size would you recommend for a good community tank, with a bonded pair?

 
No less than 3 feet in length.  The length is more important than volume, as you likely realize, with this fish, as they remain very close to the substrate and there has to be room for them to get out of each other's way now and then.
 
I added a female about four years ago, in the 5-foot tank, before I understood the bonding issue.  They spawned four times, but their interaction was unusual and different each time, and after the fourth spawn the male decided enough was enough and he killed the female.  Even in a 5-foot tank, heavily planted, she had no escape.  I hope I would more readily recognize the signs now.
 
Byron.

 

[DanTheFishMan11]

Yeah in my 4ft community, the male killed my female, I thought they had been paired by the breede but obviously not... is 40 gallons ok, was looking about and want to keep it relatively small, the tank is just about 3 and a half foot

Thanks, but yeah I know this, although what size would you recommend for a good community tank, with a bonded pair?

 
No less than 3 feet in length.  The length is more important than volume, as you likely realize, with this fish, as they remain very close to the substrate and there has to be room for them to get out of each other's way now and then.
 
I added a female about four years ago, in the 5-foot tank, before I understood the bonding issue.  They spawned four times, but their interaction was unusual and different each time, and after the fourth spawn the male decided enough was enough and he killed the female.  Even in a 5-foot tank, heavily planted, she had no escape.  I hope I would more readily recognize the signs now.
 
Byron.

 

[Byron]

Yeah in my 4ft community, the male killed my female, I thought they had been paired by the breede but obviously not... is 40 gallons ok, was looking about and want to keep it relatively small, the tank is just about 3 and a half foot
 

 
Yes, that should be fine.  Something else you probably already know, but if you intend raising fry, do not include catfish as they are nocturnal.  My cories and whiptails got the eggs three times and shoaling fry once, during darkness.  I wasn't intending raising them, just letting nature be itself, so it didn't matter, but the parents cannot defend during darkness.  
 
Even daylight can be tricky; several years ago I had a pair of common rams in my 90g, and one day I was enjoying watching the female shepherding the fry (about four days old) around, and all of a sudden two cories just happened to come round a chunk of wood and into the shoal.  Well, it was only a matter of seconds before every single fry was gone.  The female tried to defend them, but of couse corys are not bothered by to pokes and nibbles when in a feeding frenzy.

 

[DanTheFishMan11]

Yeah in my 4ft community, the male killed my female, I thought they had been paired by the breede but obviously not... is 40 gallons ok, was looking about and want to keep it relatively small, the tank is just about 3 and a half foot

 
Yes, that should be fine.  Something else you probably already know, but if you intend raising fry, do not include catfish as they are nocturnal.  My cories and whiptails got the eggs three times and shoaling fry once, during darkness.  I wasn't intending raising them, just letting nature be itself, so it didn't matter, but the parents cannot defend during darkness.  
 
Even daylight can be tricky; several years ago I had a pair of common rams in my 90g, and one day I was enjoying watching the female shepherding the fry (about four days old) around, and all of a sudden two cories just happened to come round a chunk of wood and into the shoal.  Well, it was only a matter of seconds before every single fry was gone.  The female tried to defend them, but of couse corys are not bothered by to pokes and nibbles when in a feeding frenzy.

yeah ill more than likely just have ottos, and what do you think about some shrimp?