What test kits do the planted keepers like?

[MaloK]

The test that are mostly used for a planted tank are PH, GH, KH, Nitrate, Phosphate, Potassium, Copper, Iron and Carbon Dioxide.

Edit: pro JBL have a test Kit called Pro Scape Test Lab that is oriented toward planted Aquaria. They also have another called Pro Aquatest, that has 19 parameters.

 

[Fish Fan1]

The test that are mostly used for a planted tank are PH, GH, KH, Nitrate, Phosphate, Potassium, Copper, Iron and Carbon Dioxide.

Edit: pro JBL have a test Kit called Pro Scape Test Lab that is oriented toward planted Aquaria. They also have another called Pro Aquatest, that has 19 parameters.

Thank you! I was unaware for that kit, but that's what I'm hoping to learn in this thread. Thank you for the suggestion!

 

[gwand]

I don’t know how planted you want your tanks to be. My tanks are planted with Amazon Swords, Cryptocoryne wentii, and several varieties of Anubias. All these plants are thriving at the two year mark without fertilizer. I have never checked or supplemented with phosphate, copper, potassium or iron. These are simple plants to grow. Of course there are many other beautiful plants that need CO2 and all the bells and whistles. Too complicated for me.

 

[Fish Fan1]

I don’t know how planted you want your tanks to be. My tanks are planted with Amazon Swords, Cryptocoryne wentii, and several varieties of Anubias. All these plants are thriving at the two year mark without fertilizer. I have never checked or supplemented with phosphate, copper, potassium or iron. These are simple plants to grow. Of course there are many other beautiful plants that need CO2 and all the bells and whistles. Too complicated for me.

I hear you! These have always been the plants I have tried to grow, easy, low-tech, low light plants. Typically, I do pretty good, and no, I don’t do much extra for the plants themselves, they seem to do fine on fish food and poo. But, that’s the “fish tank with some plants” guy, and I’m trying to be a “planted tank” guy lol!

I hope to setup more than one freshwater tank in the near future, but currently I’m looking to reboot a 15 gallon AIO that’s lit with a Kessil a160we Tuna Sun. In this tank, I’ve never been able to grow anything but Anubius (barely), but everything else eventually melts. I am suspecting that even when dimmed down, the Kessil light is too powerful, without the addition of CO2.

I’m trying to decide between trying once more for a low-tech approach on this 15 gallon, maybe trying either an aqua soil or dirt; neither of which I’ve tried before. Or, just going for a high-tech system and adding CO2. I mean, I’ve always wanted to have a nice carpeting plant, and most of those tend to need CO2.

Decisions lol!

Thanks again for your help here!

 

[seangee]

+1 for keeping it simple. I know my gh, kh & pH and these don’t typically change. So my only tests are healthy fish and healthy plants.

 

[Fish Fan1]

+1 for keeping it simple. I know my gh, kh & pH and these don’t typically change. So my only tests are healthy fish and healthy plants.

Thank you for helping here! I do have an appreciation for keeping it simple. But I'm also tired of this particular tank looking awful as it's in our living room.

Could I please ask what you use for a substrate?

Thanks again for your help!

 

[seangee]

I use inert river sand. So the sand does nothing. For those plants that don’t get their nutrients from the water column I use root tabs if / when needed

 

[Fish Fan1]

I use inert river sand. So the sand does nothing. For those plants that don’t get their nutrients from the water column I use root tabs if / when needed

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Just a quick observation about testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. The chemical formula for these things is NH3, NO2 and NO3. there are two ways to measure for these things. the first is the Nitrogen scale and is the one favored by the scientific community. This scale only measure the N part of these things. This is the scale used by the Nutrafin test kits mentioned by Malok in post #4. Using this scale 1 ppm (which = 1 mg/l) of ammonia = 1 ppm of nitrite and 1 ppm of nitrate. This is because science is usually concerned with the nitrogen levels.

However, the API test (and many other we use) measures using the Total Ion scale which measures all of the components involved.

There are two major ways to describe the concentrations of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate in water. The "nitrogen" weight of these molecules describes the weight of only the nitrogen atoms within them. On the other hand, the "ion" weight of these molecules describes the weight of the entire molecule. For example, the term nitrate-nitrogen (NO3-N) refers to the weight of only the nitrogen atom within the nitrate molecule; as opposed to nitrate-ion (NO3), which describes the weight of the entire nitrate molecule. Note that a given nitrate-nitrogen value will always be lower than the associated nitrate-ion value. Conversion between the two forms is as simple as applying a constant (see graph below). Scientific literature often uses the "nitrogen" form rather than the "ion" form to describe the concentration for these molecules. The "nitrogen" form is more appropriate when discussing nitrification/denitrification cycles, as it simplifies various equations and flow-charts. For example, it is easy to see that 100 ppm of nitrite-nitrogen (NO2-N) can go on to form 00 ppm of nitrate-nitrogen (NO3-N). Using the "ion" form here would be more cumbersome; 100 ppm of nitrite (NO2) goes on to form approximately 135 ppm of nitrate (NO3). Note that a total ammonia value (NH3 + NH4) cannot be trivially converted from "nitrogen" to "ion" form or vice versa. The total ammonia value must first be broken into component NH3 and NH4 values, then those converted individually to NH3-N and NH4-N and added together. The Free Ammonia Calculator can be used to do this.​

NH3 = NH3-N * 1.21589

NH4 = NH4-N * 1.28786

NO2 = NO2-N * 3.28443

NO3 = NO3-N * 4.42664

Assumed atomic weights:
H: 1.008, N: 14.007, O: 15.999

This matters for a few reasons. A perfect example is Dr. Hovanec's directions for fishless cycling. In these he talks about not letting ammonia or nitrite from getting above 5 ppm on the nitrogen scale. But if one is using API kits those numbers will be higher. so you have to apply the above formulas. Ammonia should not get above 1.28 that is because the ammonia because most if it will turn to NH4 (ammonium) in water, So the ammonia level not to exceed on an API kit becomes 6.4 ppm and nitrite becomes 16.4 ppm. Whichever scale onre uses exceeding the numbers will normally stall the scale or else develop the wrong strains of bacteria.

Also the solution for dealing with nitrite in a tank with fish is not to change water, it is to add chloride as it, in effect, block the nitrite from entering the fish. If you want to know how to do this read about it in this article on the site https://www.fishforums.net/threads/rescuing-a-fish-in-cycle-gone-wild-part-il.433778/

I have had as many as 13 planted tanks over the years. For almost 10 years, I ran a high tech pressurized CO2 added tank. Early on I was trying to test a bunch but ultimately stopped. I settled on a dosing regimen that seemed to work fine as I grew any plant I wanted in that tank.

So, my answer would be I almost never test for anything in relation to the plants in a tank. In fact, unless I am running my bio-farm to cycle filters, I do not test almost anything ever. I did monitor my Altum angel tank using a a continuous digital monitor which measured conductivity or TDS, temp in F or C and pH. But that was because I lowered the 1st and 3rd parameters from those of my tap. In the end, my current planted tanks are now all lower light and use a limited number of species.

I fertilize weekly after water changes with Tropica liquid ferts and have done so for over 20 years. I also add Flourish Excel at that time and dosing at the rate of 3 ml/10 gal. of water. Finally, I use Jobe's fertilzer spikes for Lish Ferns & Palms as my substrate fert. These can be cut to needed sizes. But, if you want to use them, never uproot them as they are slow release buried but not in open water. If you let them get into the water becuase you like to replant now and then and so remove some plants to put in the new ones, you may soon earn your aquarium MBA (Mastered by Algae). The box below lasts me for years. I add them at 3 month intervals in March, June, Sept., and Dec. for crypts, swords and planys I have in pots.

Buy them on Amazon

But many planted tank folks do test a lot and they have indicated this in their posts in this thread. I am a minimalist who is guided by the kiss theory which means, "Keep It Simple, Stupid." So I do. You will just have to discover what will work best for you and once you do, keep on doing it.

I prefer to use a small size gravel for planted tanks. I also feel that most of the pricey planted tank products are a complete waste of money. This is just my opinion though.

Finally, this chart may help you determine what is causing your plants look poorly:

 

[Fish Fan1]

Just a quick observation about testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. The chemical formula for these things is NH3, NO2 and NO3. there are two ways to measure for these things. the first is the Nitrogen scale and is the one favored by the scientific community. This scale only measure the N part of these things. This is the scale used by the Nutrafin test kits mentioned by Malok in post #4. Using this scale 1 ppm (which = 1 mg/l) of ammonia = 1 ppm of nitrite and 1 ppm of nitrate. This is because science is usually concerned with the nitrogen levels.

However, the API test (and many other we use) measures using the Total Ion scale which measures all of the components involved.

There are two major ways to describe the concentrations of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate in water. The "nitrogen" weight of these molecules describes the weight of only the nitrogen atoms within them. On the other hand, the "ion" weight of these molecules describes the weight of the entire molecule. For example, the term nitrate-nitrogen (NO3-N) refers to the weight of only the nitrogen atom within the nitrate molecule; as opposed to nitrate-ion (NO3), which describes the weight of the entire nitrate molecule. Note that a given nitrate-nitrogen value will always be lower than the associated nitrate-ion value. Conversion between the two forms is as simple as applying a constant (see graph below). Scientific literature often uses the "nitrogen" form rather than the "ion" form to describe the concentration for these molecules. The "nitrogen" form is more appropriate when discussing nitrification/denitrification cycles, as it simplifies various equations and flow-charts. For example, it is easy to see that 100 ppm of nitrite-nitrogen (NO2-N) can go on to form 00 ppm of nitrate-nitrogen (NO3-N). Using the "ion" form here would be more cumbersome; 100 ppm of nitrite (NO2) goes on to form approximately 135 ppm of nitrate (NO3). Note that a total ammonia value (NH3 + NH4) cannot be trivially converted from "nitrogen" to "ion" form or vice versa. The total ammonia value must first be broken into component NH3 and NH4 values, then those converted individually to NH3-N and NH4-N and added together. The Free Ammonia Calculator can be used to do this.​

NH3 = NH3-N * 1.21589

NH4 = NH4-N * 1.28786

NO2 = NO2-N * 3.28443

NO3 = NO3-N * 4.42664

Assumed atomic weights:
H: 1.008, N: 14.007, O: 15.999

This matters for a few reasons. A perfect example is Dr. Hovanec's directions for fishless cycling. In these he talks about not letting ammonia or nitrite from getting above 5 ppm on the nitrogen scale. But if one is using API kits those numbers will be higher. so you have to apply the above formulas. Ammonia should not get above 1.28 that is because the ammonia because most if it will turn to NH4 (ammonium) in water, So the ammonia level not to exceed on an API kit becomes 6.4 ppm and nitrite becomes 16.4 ppm. Whichever scale onre uses exceeding the numbers will normally stall the scale or else develop the wrong strains of bacteria.

Also the solution for dealing with nitrite in a tank with fish is not to change water, it is to add chloride as it, in effect, block the nitrite from entering the fish. If you want to know how to do this read about it in this article on the site https://www.fishforums.net/threads/rescuing-a-fish-in-cycle-gone-wild-part-il.433778/

Thank you for this detailed reply!

You had me dusting off my old chem minor here, but I do understand the above. Over on the salty side of things, we talk a lot about total ammonia vs. free ammonia too.

Let me first say that I looked for the test kit @MaloK posted above, and I didn't see good source of that kit here in the US (<read: a store I'd feel comfortable ordering from). So I'm not sure this kit is going to be an option for me. Or, like you said later in your post, I may not want/need to test for all those parameters. But just to make sure I understand, the JBL test kit mentioned above uses only the nitrogen content of each molecule/ion, but the API tests for the whole molecule/ion. Is that right?

I've watch Dr. Tim's extended talk on cycling marine tanks several times; good stuff for sure. I can provide a link to that talk if anyone here is interested. For a fishless cycle, I don't tend to let the ammonia get quite that high, I would fishless cycle my marine tanks at about 2.0 ppm to maybe 3.0 ppm. It can go higher safely, but indeed if too high and you stall the cycle. So I would think any of the kits are going to get me in that range safely.

Outside of the the initial nitrogen cycle, I see no need to test for ammonia or nitrite in a healthy, running system, short of some emergency that makes me suspect that the ammonia is high. So most of what you're saying is going to relate for any ongoing nitrate tests I may do.

I'll add, on the salty forum I frequent it's largely agreed/understood that the presence of nitrites will cause artificially high results for nitrates when tested. I would have to assume the same would happen with freshwater tests too. Do you have any experience or knowledge of that?

To me, none of the hobby level kits we use are laboratory accurate. I prefer to look for trends, such as, ammonia went up and has now come down, rather than hard numbers. But this info is all good stuff, and I very much appreciate conversation like this! I'm already liking TFF better than one of the other freshwater sites I tried.......

​

I have had as many as 13 planted tanks over the years. For almost 10 years, I ran a high tech pressurized CO2 added tank. Early on I was trying to test a bunch but ultimately stopped. I settled on a dosing regimen that seemed to work fine as I grew any plant I wanted in that tank.

So, my answer would be I almost never test for anything in relation to the plants in a tank. In fact, unless I am running my bio-farm to cycle filters, I do not test almost anything ever. I did monitor my Altum angel tank using a a continuous digital monitor which measured conductivity or TDS, temp in F or C and pH. But that was because I lowered the 1st and 3rd parameters from those of my tap. In the end, my current planted tanks are now all lower light and use a limited number of species.

I fertilize weekly after water changes with Tropica liquid ferts and have done so for over 20 years. I also add Flourish Excel at that time and dosing at the rate of 3 ml/10 gal. of water. Finally, I use Jobe's fertilzer spikes for Lish Ferns & Palms as my substrate fert. These can be cut to needed sizes. But, if you want to use them, never uproot them as they are slow release buried but not in open water. If you let them get into the water becuase you like to replant now and then and so remove some plants to put in the new ones, you may soon earn your aquarium MBA (Mastered by Algae). The box below lasts me for years. I add them at 3 month intervals in March, June, Sept., and Dec. for crypts, swords and planys I have in pots.

View attachment 366512
Buy them on Amazon

But many planted tank folks do test a lot and they have indicated this in their posts in this thread. I am a minimalist who is guided by the kiss theory which means, "Keep It Simple, Stupid." So I do. You will just have to discover what will work best for you and once you do, keep on doing it.

I prefer to use a small size gravel for planted tanks. I also feel that most of the pricey planted tank products are a complete waste of money. This is just my opinion though.

Finally, this chart may help you determine what is causing your plants look poorly:

Thank you again for the above information; very helpful!

I'm already a pretty good algae farmer, I don't need an advanced degree in it lol!

I have gone back and forth on this, but considering I have other projects around the house right now, I think I'm going to save the expense of going with a CO2 injected system here, and opt to try a low-tech system once more. I believe where I'm going wrong on this tank is that I'm using a powerful light, but not giving the plants enough food for the rapid growth. I believe the plants I want to keep can handle high PAR if they are well fed.

With this in mind, I may not be incline to be testing every little parameter, this will likely be just tap water, and only plants that will do well in those conditions. So problem solved; mods please close lol!

Thanks for the tip on the Jobes! I have in the past stuffed Osmocote in gelcaps, or used the Seachem root tabs.

I'm not familiar with the Tropica ferts, but I have used the Seachem Excel. NilocG Thrive was what I was going to try this time. I have used the Seachm Flourish before, but have now learned it's rather dilute and mostly micros; Thrive appears to be more complete, from what I've read.

Do you feel that the Seachem Excel is a good source of carbon on low-tech tanks? Does it really help?

Thank you for the chart, it's very helpful. Very similar to terrestrial plant gardening too

Thanks again for your help and suggestions, I really appreciate it!

 

[MaloK]

I use NilocG Thrive C and also use Flourish Trace for my low tech shrimp tanks, my plant growt has been very good and nitrate is remaining under control at 5-10 ppm.

The combination of the two gives Carbon, Macro, Micro and Trace elements.

Last week I dropped a piece of some near dead floating plant in there and it sprung 6 inches roots in a few days.

With a cheap 89 CRI 900 lumen WRGB led. So indeed I dont test for much now. but I did initialy to create my recipe and make sure that the principal nutrients are not building up. Shrimps loves a stable environment with minimal water changes.

 

[Fish Fan1]

I use NilocG Thrive C and also use Flourish Trace for my low tech shrimp tanks, my plant growt has been very good and nitrate is remaining under control at 5-10 ppm.

The combination of the two gives Carbon, Macro, Micro and Trace elements.

Last week I dropped a piece of some near dead floating plant in there and it sprung 6 inches roots in a few days.

With a cheap 89 CRI 900 lumen WRGB led. So indeed I dont test for much now. but I did initialy to create my recipe and make sure that the principal nutrients are not building up. Shrimps loves a stable environment with minimal water changes.

That sounds like a great paradigm for me to follow. Though I thought Thrive was "complete" and didn't need the extra micros? And where is the carbon coming from here, I thought carbon came from Excel? And is there evidence to support that adding organic carbon helps with photosynthesis? Certainly, I don't think it rivals full CO2 injection.

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it!

 

[MaloK]

NilocG have diverse products. Thrive C has a Bio available source of carbon that is not based on glutaraldehyde like excel, there's a rumour going on that "Glu" based liquid carbon is not good for invertebrates... But people here been using it "correctly" without problems.

I add a little Trace to compensate some "lacks" in Thrive C

 

[Fish Fan1]

NilocG have diverse products. Thrive C has a Bio available source of carbon that is not based on glutaraldehyde like excel, there's a rumour going on that "Glu" based liquid carbon is not good for invertebrates... But people here been using it "correctly" without problems.

I add a little Trace to compensate some "lacks" in Thrive C

Gotcha, thank you! I was looking at Thrive-S as I hope to have at least one tank with shrimp too. Is there anything besides Excel and Thrive-C that adds organic carbon in the hopes that it helps photosynthesis?

I understand that copper is toxic to all inverts, but do you think that shrimp are really as sensitive to copper as the specialty shrimp tank fertilizer makers claim? Meaning, I think most plant fertilizers are likely shrimp safe, if used correctly. Is that true? If so, I would just go with the Thrive-C then.

Thanks again, I appreciate the conversation

 

[MaloK]

The big problem with copper ( as for all chelated metals ) is that once it precipitates, nearly only substrate rooted plants can / will benefit of it and actively remove it. Not in all case.

As far fetch as it seems... Without them, precipitated copper accumulation in non active substrate.

Will lead shrimps to eat copper when they use their swimmerets to bring food to their mouth.

The rate of precipitation depends solely on basic water chemistry, carbonate in major part.

The big difference is that Iron is literally used as it drops in the water and copper will linger for years.

Getting this in balance leads me to use an addition of trace minerals atm.

I test often for nitrate and copper every 2-3 months. It's the worse thing for shrimps. If it builds you need water changes and substrate vacuum.

For these experiments I used Pure RO/DI At 0 conductivity water and made the whole water mix for the last 8 months. If you're able to make that kind of environment working... You will understand overstocking meaning.

And the results are...

People have a real inclination to overwhelm their tank with fertilizer at the wrong time.

For Example...

Putting two shredded plants in a ten gallons and loading it with fertilizer will lead to algae growth.

Algae growth will lead to cutting nutrients. Cutting nutrients lead to plant decay.

An other underestimation that occurs, is tank is a lot less planted you think. So take it slow and make sure the plants are winning.

Many here grows plant out the top their tank to be able to "overstock" and keep healthy environment.

Aquaria is a good balance in observation and Alchemy.