Ich Forever

[Katty]

I have 9 green neon tetras in a 5.5 gallon tank for what I thought was going to be temporary quarantine before I could move them into my 10 gallon tank. When I got them, I noticed a few of them, maybe 3-4 had a white spot on their adipose fins and a lot of them were flashing. No problem, I thought, I'll just treat them, it'll be gone in a week, and after two weeks I can put them in my 10 gallon.

That was nearly two months ago, on April 8th. I've been treating with Quick Cure (malachite green and formaldehyde), and the recommended dose is one drop per gallon, or for tetras 1 drop per two gallons (half dose). I go with the more rather than less and do 3 drops a day, with 30-40% water changes every 4th day. Two of the fish seem to have had the same white spot on their adipose fins, while the rest have remained spotless. The two fish with the spot have had them for at least two weeks now. I don't know why these two fishes spots will not go away after so long. Each one just has one. Single. Spot. And it will not go away!

I want to get them out of there ASAP because I have an aggressive betta that was meant to go in there from a community as soon as they were done quarantining, and a 5.5 isn't very big for 9 green neons. This is just dragging on and on. I don't want to move them to the 10g to soon, because if they aren't cured, I will have a hard time trying to treat ich in a tank with plants, snails, and corydoras I want to keep alive. Is it time to switch my battle plan?

BTW the water temp is 78 F.

 

[SlyPolak]

when treating that VERY infamous flea you should move your temp. up a bit... the higher the temp. the faster the life cycle... I am treating with ONLY heat and it seems to be working, but takes a few weeks--(did not want to use chemicals)

 

[Katty]

What heat would you recommend for ich? I've heard 86 F, is this correct? And should I continue with the Quick Cure when I raise the heat?

 

[SlyPolak]

Well personally... I have my tank up to 88/89 , but thats because I am treating with ONLY heat and a little bit of salt..... If you still plan on using the QuickCure I would put the temp. up to 85 GRADUALLY ( like 1 degree for every 2 hours ) and dose NORMAL (1 drop per gal.) .. dose on 1st day / 3rd day/ and 5th day and you should have some good results.......... if it is ICH............................................... GOOGLE ICH and its life cycle and you will learn some things

 

[Larkspur]

I treated with malachite green with success in the past. I used the 1 drop per gallon method (actually overdosed accidentally one treatment day) I was treating 3 "tanks" even though only 2 showed signs. A 5.5 gallon, 2.5 gallon, and 1 gallon bowl. The 5.5 cleared up within a week. It was a heated tank and I kept the temperature right at 80. Just a degree or two more than normal at the time. The 2.5 tank was the one with the worst ICH. It didn't have a heater at the time. I went on to treat that tank twice as long. It at the time had just a molly and a phantom tetra. The 1 gallon never showed signs so I got off lucky on that one, but ended up treating it the same length as the 2.5 gallon just because they were both unheated tanks/bowls. It didn't reoccur.

So, I have no idea what to say about your dilemma. Are you positive it is ICH and not a fungus? Seems like if it were a fungi though it would be fixed after the treatment.

 

[Bignose]

I highly recommend you have a read-through of this page: http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml

by and far, it is the best source of facts about ich in the Internet. It is a long read, and can be a bit complicated, but worth working your way through it. And, please don't hesitate to ask questions about anything you read on there.

 

[Katty]

Oh don't worry, I've read every site out there about ich (and sorted out all of the junk "Ich is everywhere!" crap) I can get my hands on. I'm a research junkie. I actually tried raising the heat to 86 while dosing with quick cure and salt. Then decided that I shouldn't be mixing salt and medication, and lowered the heat because... I don't know why I lowered the heat.

With a 5.5 gallon tank, how much would 1 normal dose be? Should I go with 5 drops, 6 drops, or try to remove half a gallon of water and do 5?

And if I dose every other day, when should I change the water?

 

[Bignose]

Katty, if you read that page I liked to, you are still asking questions that are mistakes.

That page drills home that you can't just treat "every other day", but EVERY DAY. The issue is that you have to catch the organism while it is in it vulnerable phase of life, a really short time.

Medication does not keep its effectiveness for two days. It is all used up in less than 1. So, if you aren't dosing every day, a segment of the population will go through its vulnerable phase and then pass back into an invulnerable phase during the period you didn't have any medication.

THIS is why you have ich for a long time.

Also, in a previous post, you mentioned dosing at 1/3 the recommended dose. This is also an egregious mistake, because all it will do will selectively breed out the population that has some resistance to the medication. By dosing at 1/3, you are only killing the most vulnerable ones -- the ones more susceptible to the weak concentration of medication. The ones most resistant to the medication survive, then pass on those medication-resistant genes to their offspring, and now the entire population will be resistant to that medication. The resistance may even become strong enough that the medication at full-strength may not do it. You may have to switch to a different type of medication.

So, again, I urge you to read through the link. It talks through many of these same issues. It even talks about your waterchange question. Please read it, and then come back with any questions you might have.

Ultimately, that pages talks about the mistakes that people often make and why they have "ich forever". Considering the title of this thread, it seems really, really pertinent to me.

 

[Katty]

That is not what I said. I dose every day at the same exact time, at MORE than half dose, while the carton recommends a half dose for tetras (3 drops for 5.5 gallons).

I was only asking on clarification for what SlyPolak said, since they said I should dose every other day.

 

[Larkspur]

I did 6 drops in my 5.5 gallon every other day for 3 treatments, but with your dilemma I'd take the following advice and try it daily if you haven't already. Figured better to go high rather than low though I'm sure in technicality with decorations and gravel it is 5 gallons.

 

[Katty]

I think I'll work the temp up and start doing 6 drops daily then. I really want to know why those particular spots have not moved in two weeks though. The water is not cold, and that seems to be beyond the lifespan of a single ich in tropical water. I don't believe I've heard of them leaving their cysts behind.

 

[Larkspur]

I had a like 2 that wouldn't budge off a tetra for forever it seemed like in that 2.5 gallon. Even mentioned it to my LFS owner and he was quick to say "Don't stop the treatment until those spots are gone too!"

 

[Katty]

Ok, I'll hope the last two will pop off soon then. I was worried I was going to make a resistant strain doing the half dose, but the green neons were pretty expensive and hard to find, so I didn't want to kill them by going overboard on it... Hopefully full dose will do the trick and the neons won't mind.

 

[Larkspur]

If I were in your situation I'd be at the point now I'd take the risk because otherwise they may end up permanent residents in the QT tank. But as long as there is a cyst there is still some waiting to free swim

 

[Katty]

Yeah, I decided to hell with it, I'm keeping pet fish, not pet ich. I added the 6 drops tonight, started working up the temperature, and crossed my fingers.