I Would Like Your Opnion - Experienced Or Not.

[plecostomus-mad]

i too apologize for my reactions and responses.

i do feel strongly about fish be it betta's, goldfish or clown fish being kept in confined spaces that are very small.

i agree the situation about betta's is popping up alot and for that reason i was persistent in my quest to find out why it is ok for a betta to be housed in a 1/2 gallon of even a 2 gallon tank for that matter.

i think i was hoping to add a little to the thread for newbies looking to buy a betta to know exactly why its ok or not ok to house one in a 1/2 gallon.at first glance the 1st posted article would tell them its ok to put a betta in a 1/2 gallon tank with special care. i doubt every new betta owner will stay within these care guidelines and thus end up with a betta in a 1/2 gallon tank that is pretty much doomed.
the article is more about a business setup or sorting / conditioning the best fighting males rather than practical home keeping,and for that reason i was persistent.

sorry for being a p.i.t.a.

 

[Tolak]

Not a problem at all, and there are some good points made about using a larger tank with less frequent maintenance. I'm sure that learning the how's & whys of successful betta keeping in smaller volumes will make keeping them in larger volumes all the easier.

The thing is, in this section we are all often up against a situation of a new fishkeeper who was sold a betta, a small container, and worst of all poorly informed. Working in the moment, they have a fish in a small volume of water, and the best thing we can do as a group is inform them how to make that successful as well as comfortable for both the fish and new fishkeeper. If at first it means learning how it is done we as individuals are better off personally with more knowledge, and are better prepared to help this new fishkeeper.

If a bit of research & knowledge means saving a fish I'm all for it.

 

[5teady_2012]

i too apologize for my reactions and responses.

i do feel strongly about fish be it betta's, goldfish or clown fish being kept in confined spaces that are very small.

i agree the situation about betta's is popping up alot and for that reason i was persistent in my quest to find out why it is ok for a betta to be housed in a 1/2 gallon of even a 2 gallon tank for that matter.

i think i was hoping to add a little to the thread for newbies looking to buy a betta to know exactly why its ok or not ok to house one in a 1/2 gallon.at first glance the 1st posted article would tell them its ok to put a betta in a 1/2 gallon tank with special care. i doubt every new betta owner will stay within these care guidelines and thus end up with a betta in a 1/2 gallon tank that is pretty much doomed.
the article is more about a business setup or sorting / conditioning the best fighting males rather than practical home keeping,and for that reason i was persistent.

sorry for being a p.i.t.a.

All good mate no harm

Yeah i see what u mean about the article on about 1/2G, personally i would not do it that low, thats why i kept putting 2G, cos my own persoanl view i would not go lower than that, or recommend it, but still if needed, i would continue to give advice if people intended on going lower.

Il just show u this from when i use to breed bettas..

I got 2 bettas (adopted them) cos they was mistreat by thier owner and they was torn to shreds and really ill, and had a 7G tank, and housed them in it whilst they was undergoing treatment (turned in to thier home for quite a while though cos they did so well and thrived)..

So really they only got 3.5G each, and if u look on this video, they do actually have a nice amount of room and the tank aint even full.

(just incase anyone wonders, i did frost the divider at a later day cos of the flaring lol)

Here is the video.

 

[plecostomus-mad]

they do look well i must say. but in my opinion its too small its just not what i would call enough for a fish. for example, i have 1 large bn, 2 clown plecos, 3 synodontis nigrita and 3 corys in a 4ft 50g. im buying a 5ft tank to put my bn and synos in because they will have more freedom. they are all perfectly fine in the 4ft, as were your bettas in the 7g but in my mind, more space is betta <--

i think my opinion of '' space '' takes over at times and i forget to actually give advice on how to care for fish in a smaller environment that may well be inadequate,and instead concentrate on saying, DONT DO IT! bigger tank needed etc.

 

[Night61]

i would also like to add to tolak's statement, we have to remember that betta's are often the gateway fish that leads the new fish keeper to other species, it is our duty, no our responsibility to make that newbies are comfortable and to give advice in a none confrontational way, that makes the experience of being a fish keeper pleasurable for both fish and fish keeper.
if we make it unpleasant then they may seek out there information from less reliable sources, to the detriment of fish and fish keeper.

 

[5teady_2012]

Its a topic (when it comes to size) that is so widened on opinions cos its what works for some and not for others.

I remember when i had a 3ft tank in my living room, had a male betta in it and he hardly moved, always stayed near the left front corner like that was his own little domain lol, then when i decided to get a group of females, i moved him to a 7G tank and he was the most active ive ever seen him, he gained such a personality in his own little tank and seemed to be miles happier.

Ive always used sponge filters on my tanks as well so i know it was nothing to do with the flow in the larger tank cos it was not rapid.

So he had a nice 28G and seemed misserable, then got a 7G tank and seemed on top of the world lol.

At a later date when got well in to breeding, i set up a 2ft tank section off in to 4 compartments, so roughly they had 5G each, and they thrived as well, they bred well, and lived long.

In my mind i really think it comes down to care for the fish, and size is not a main factor, a well looked after fish is a happy fish in my opinion

 

[woodstock]

i moved him to a 7G tank and he was the most active ive ever seen him, he gained such a personality in his own little tank and seemed to be miles happier.

I love how you use 7gals as "little", when in reality it actually is quite little

Ive always used sponge filters on my tanks as well so i know it was nothing to do with the flow in the larger tank cos it was not rapid

Bit off topic, was your bought or home-made? If it was a DIY, I'm gonna have to PM you on that, I gotta make my own soon.

In my mind i really think it comes down to care for the fish, and size is not a main factor, a well looked after fish is a happy fish in my opinion

*COUGH whichiswhytheyshouldgetabigatankaspossible COUGH* lol Again, it's not hard to argue that you don't get the most out of them in their 1/2 gals anyway. (And not surprising when you get "helppp my betta in the 1/2 gal got sick and is dying"). But just sayin'.

 

[5teady_2012]

i moved him to a 7G tank and he was the most active ive ever seen him, he gained such a personality in his own little tank and seemed to be miles happier.

I love how you use 7gals as "little", when in reality it actually is quite little

Ive always used sponge filters on my tanks as well so i know it was nothing to do with the flow in the larger tank cos it was not rapid

Bit off topic, was your bought or home-made? If it was a DIY, I'm gonna have to PM you on that, I gotta make my own soon.

In my mind i really think it comes down to care for the fish, and size is not a main factor, a well looked after fish is a happy fish in my opinion

*COUGH whichiswhytheyshouldgetabigatankaspossible COUGH* lol Again, it's not hard to argue that you don't get the most out of them in their 1/2 gals anyway. (And not surprising when you get "helppp my betta in the 1/2 gal got sick and is dying"). But just sayin'.

7G is not that little lol, 1 betta in a 7G it has lots of room.

All my sponge filters where bought, my main ones on bigger tanks was these. (different make though)

Bigger tanks is personal prefrence, in my eyes, they have enough room, they aint dolphins.

And if u read the whole thread, not once have i said use 1/2G tanks lol

Here is another of my 7G tanks,(2 bettas breeding in it) decent amount of room and the tank is only half full for the breeding process.

 

[woodstock]

Ah I see. Well the way I see it, 7 gallons in general really isn't that big, or that much (for one betta, you'd probably see it as a lot )

The 5 - 15 gallons are really the smaller sized ones, more simple, more basic, etc etc.

Excuse me, I may be crazy, I'm on my 4th sick day

 

[Mauricia]

Well I think we need to recognize the difference between breeding animals and keeping them as pets. Breeders are never going to have the same type of care as a person with pets will because they have too many animals. Look at snake breeders who use rack systems. The snakes are kept healthy but once the pet owner takes their pet home they're not going to keep their snake in a container of that size, most people will recommend a much larger enclosure. Same with bettas. Because breeders are presumably (hopefully) experts, they keep up on water changes, can recognize and treat early signs of disease, etc. It would also be completely impractical to keep their stock in large tanks. I think many people on this forum are well aware of how betta breeders keep their fish, at least I was. This doesn't change my opinion at all on what I would recommend to a beginner betta keeper. It is well recognized in the aquarium hobby world that beginners do better with a large tank rather than a small one (assuming they don't get overwhelmed with water changes!) because the water parameters are more stable. Stable, clean water is the key to fish health. I recommend a larger tank because it is so much easier to do partial water changes than 100% water changes, and if you can filter and cycle a tank then this is the easiest long term solution. What if you want to go on a week vacation? You can't very well leave your bettas in 1/2 gallon jars for a week with no ill effect. Because it is hard to manage a stable cycle in a 2.5 gallon tank, I recommend 5 gallons. I also think the bettas benefit from space to swim, but even if you don't agree with this, I think it is pretty indisputable that a 5 gallon tank allows for a more stable environment. I think it's best to advise beginners with a more foolproof, easy method of keeping a fish so that they will be a happy betta keeper. Very small tanks and overstocking require more finesse and are best left to the experts, such as breeders.

 

[5teady_2012]

Ah I see. Well the way I see it, 7 gallons in general really isn't that big, or that much (for one betta, you'd probably see it as a lot )

The 5 - 15 gallons are really the smaller sized ones, more simple, more basic, etc etc.

Excuse me, I may be crazy, I'm on my 4th sick day

7 gallons for 1 fish, thats enough lol...

Considring in community tanks, most people use the 1" per gallon rule, and lots on here if you look at like say for example the livebarer section, in a 20g tank they put in 15-20 fish.....

OH AND THE BIGGY>...... can i remind you what u house? in your profile......

 

[woodstock]

Yes, I have that in my profile, but what are you saying?

 

[5teady_2012]

Well I think we need to recognize the difference between breeding animals and keeping them as pets. Breeders are never going to have the same type of care as a person with pets will because they have too many animals. Look at snake breeders who use rack systems. The snakes are kept healthy but once the pet owner takes their pet home they're not going to keep their snake in a container of that size, most people will recommend a much larger enclosure. Same with bettas. Because breeders are presumably (hopefully) experts, they keep up on water changes, can recognize and treat early signs of disease, etc. It would also be completely impractical to keep their stock in large tanks. I think many people on this forum are well aware of how betta breeders keep their fish, at least I was. This doesn't change my opinion at all on what I would recommend to a beginner betta keeper. It is well recognized in the aquarium hobby world that beginners do better with a large tank rather than a small one (assuming they don't get overwhelmed with water changes!) because the water parameters are more stable. Stable, clean water is the key to fish health. I recommend a larger tank because it is so much easier to do partial water changes than 100% water changes, and if you can filter and cycle a tank then this is the easiest long term solution. What if you want to go on a week vacation? You can't very well leave your bettas in 1/2 gallon jars for a week with no ill effect. Because it is hard to manage a stable cycle in a 2.5 gallon tank, I recommend 5 gallons. I also think the bettas benefit from space to swim, but even if you don't agree with this, I think it is pretty indisputable that a 5 gallon tank allows for a more stable environment. I think it's best to advise beginners with a more foolproof, easy method of keeping a fish so that they will be a happy betta keeper. Very small tanks and overstocking require more finesse and are best left to the experts, such as breeders.

Yes i understand that, but what if someone can only use a 2G tank? still do all we can to advise them to run it best way possible right?

Yes, I have that in my profile, but what are you saying?

you said 7G isnt really that big, but u have 2 bettas in a 5G tank divided lol (2.5G each), contradticing yourself young one.

 

[woodstock]

Way to use stalking skills to contradict me

But thats not what I meant by "big" or by "small", I meant like compared to the aquarium hobby (and aquatic nature in general) of keeping 100 gallons and 200 gallons, 5 and 10 gallons are like miniature aquariums, NOT in the comparison of having 1 fish per __ gallon. And I'm not beating down smaller aquariums, I'm just saying that in reality, they aren't that large at all if you really really think about it.

Am I...making sense?

Give me a few days, I'll start making sense, I promise!

 

[5teady_2012]

Way to use stalking skills to contradict me

But thats not what I meant by "big" or by "small", I meant like compared to the aquarium hobby (and aquatic nature in general) of keeping 100 gallons and 200 gallons, 5 and 10 gallons are like miniature aquariums, NOT in the comparison of having 1 fish per __ gallon. And I'm not beating down smaller aquariums, I'm just saying that in reality, they aren't that large at all if you really really think about it.

Am I...making sense?

Give me a few days, I'll start making sense, I promise!

People who have huge tanks have huge fish, so everything still works on the same basis.


I just been reading your thread about divding your bettas or whether to get another 5G tank etc...

If you can afford and have room, of course i would say do it, but if u dont, i would say, more water changes, dont over feed etc...

I would not just blurt out GET A BIGGER TANK, cos if u have no way of doing so, il do all i can to help and guide you on whats to best for your current setup..

And this is the main point of this thread is to get across to the members that dont do this, to start trying to help more on the situation rather than what they think is right or wrong.