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Look at it like I do the White Cloud Mountain minnow it is bassicly extinct in the wild and the only thing keeping the species alive is captivity. I agree that some aquariums/zoos are bad but not all. Just wanted to put my opinion if you disagree I donāt care thatās just how I look at things.
I have always disagreed with keeping animals in captivity and you people obviously don't see my point how stressful it is for the animals.
Not going to argue just wanted to put my opinion out there. Already said Iām fine with you disagreeing with me it dosnt bother me and unless you are a biologist or zoologist you cant change what I think. Weāre also of topic so letās stop
Not trying to argue here, but if you disagree with keeping animals in captivity then why do you keep fish in glass boxes with limited swimming space? Why do you keep cats?
. Sadly, this is not the case. The population is so sparsely populated now that the only hopes for it is to converge the populations together for more genetic diversity. Sadly, conservation funding is low due to low awareness, and the Indonesian government are not moving quickly on that in cooperation with conservationists.... It is also a reason that we were scared off of establishing a Northern White Rhino programs soon after the 80s. Neither sp/ssp fared well...
Hay, @EllRog pass me the popcorn!
I can see both sides of the argument but having personally dealt with PETA in the past I do not believe much of what they say without reliable independent verification. Zoos serve a purpose to help educate us about animals not just to display them. There are some bad zoos where they do not maintain a decent level of care for the animals but most I have seen are good. I have seen plenty of them here in the USA and in Europe that maintain good habitats for their animals. I agree with @trash.binh91 that it is not a perfect world though we can try and make it better.
Not wanting to argue with you @Salty&Onion as I respect you, but as a zoo enthusiast who has spoken to MANY professionals in the field (not the generic keeper talk at the zoo), there's no way you can justify keeping an animal in capitivity is as good as the wild. Ever, never, not even our pets. However, what we can do is to help preserve animal habitat and to preserve populations of animals, in captivity and in the wild.
Now I'm not talking highway hellholes, I'm talking reputable zoos. Even if they arent perfect. There is no perfect zoo. Never will be. Again, we cannot justify keeping an animal captive, yet we still do it. They can live and thrive in captivity, and husbandry and welfare for reputable zoos has skyrocketed in the past decades. To give an example of how conservation CAN really help an animal, take the Visayan Warty Pig.
The Visayan Warty Pig is a species found only on the islands of Panay and Negro, where their habitat is mostly, if not completely gone. When zoos in the AZA and the EAZA took notice, breeding programs were established. In Europe, they took in the Negros subspecies, whilst the one you'll find in the US is the Panay subspecies. There are around 70 animals across 16 US institutions (4 non-AZA), and many more (idk the amount) in Europe with 44 institutions holding them. There's no wild habitat for these species to return to, they are being held as an assurance population for the wild one, its not worth it to just let the species go extinct, so I'd think again when saying "zoos are making animals go extinct". The bar is set past the outdated menagerie my friend.
Whilst you claim animals will become extinct with zoos and aquariums, you invalidate the hard work of conservationists when who have saved or at least conserved the likes of species such as : American Bison, American Burying Beetle, Bald Eagle, White-Tailed Deer, Tequila Splitfin, Przewalski's Horse, California Condor, Kihansi Spray Toad, Panamanian Golden Frog, Arabian Oryx, Puerto Rico Amazon Parrot, Puerto Rican Crested Toad, Axolotl, Butterfly Splitfin, Potosi Pupfish, White Cloud Mountain Minnow, Wyoming Toad, Red Wolf, Mexican Wolf, Wisent, Charco Palma Pupfish, Monterray Platyfish, Mangarahara Cichlid, multiple Partula snails, Pink Pigeon, Mauritius Kestrel, Formosan Sika, Vietnamese Sika, Pere David's Deer, Mhorr Gazelle, Scimitar-Horned Oryx, Guam Kingfisher, Guam Rail, Socorro Dove, Lord Howe Stick Insect, a few Atelopus species, Eastern Barred Bandicoot, Hawaiian Crow, Alagos Curassow, Seychelles Giant Tortoise, Southern Mountain Yellow-Legged Frog, Florida Grasshopper Sparrow, Golden Lion Tamarin, Black-Footed Ferret, Chatham Black Robin, Echo Parakeet, among SO many others.
With all these successes, of course there have been failures as well. I'll take one of the biggest examples, the Sumatran Rhino. Back in the 80s, there was a program set up to import Sumatran Rhinos (a Critically Endangered species) from Indonesia in an effort to save the species. Cincinnati and Bronx were coordinators of the program, with Cincinnati leading the efforts mostly. 40 animals were exported from Indonesia to zoos across the world. Oddly, Cincinnati was the only zoo that received fertile, ungeriatric animals, so that could be a major reason why Cincinnati was the only one to manage to breed them, and if the program was distributed with better fertile pairings, we could have been seeing Sumatran Rhinos in many zoos
You also said that animals cannot survive in the wild once captive-bred. Not entirely true, actually. You see, animals are sent to rehabilitation centers where they are taught behaviors they'd need to survive in the wild. This is the "perfect" solution, but many zoos send their animals to protected wild habitat/reserves and the animals live a monitored life there....
I'd also like to mention that many conservation programs out in the field currently are backed and organized by zoos and the money they generate from revenue such as the Bronx Zoo/WCS.
Also, zoos do cull animals (what I think you refer to as the "secret truth"?). It's the harsh truth, natural selection if you will. It's a touchy subject, but you have to understand this. You see, you can claim that "zoos are just killing what they swear to protect" (not saying you did). But honestly, think of it like this: zoos have a limited amount of space (as does the wild), and only the animals with the best genes for conservation should be kept around, in zoos that breed the animals that is. Animals that are completely irrelevant to conservation, but help generate funds for zoos (meerkats for examples), are bred to be culled in a sense. Zoos will try their best to find a home for the surplus animals that arent genetically valuable, but if they cannot, they are culled. It's like that in nature, if an animal cannot find a role for it to survive, it will simply perish. I am not condoning simply culling because you dont want to have an animal when there was reason for you to sustain them, and no other reason than that. That SHOULD be shamed upon, and it sadly does happen amongst smaller, roadside operations. It rarely happens amongst reputable zoos, but if/when it does, shame on them. Simple as that.
Also, I'd like to address this to you @Salty&Onion, if you are completely against capitivity, can you explain why you FORCEFULLY overstock your tanks? Non-domestic pets are the same as any animal in a zoo/aquarium, and they are striving to care for them the best they can. Why would you not do the same if you feel so bad for them in their tiny glass box? We can never be able to replicate completely wild habitat, but we can help animals survive and thrive under our care, which we should all strive to do. This not only is completely odd, it also is one of two things that invalidate your argument. The other thing is you "dissing" other members. Especially you saying "educated people like me". Really? Come on, not only is that discrediting the other person's very merited argument, but highly disrespectful.
In a perfect world, zoos wouldnt have to exist. Sadly, we are not in that world....
This whole post is not my opinion, it's fact. The evidence is overwhelming. If you're gonna continue and label yourself as almighty and high, you are being FORCIBLY ignorant, instead of being the "animal advocate" you seem to be doing. You are using a lot of PETA and likewise group's arguments. Surprise surprise, they have no zoo professionals, so their arguments are purely based off of their assumations and observations, instead of years and years of work, experience, and intelligence. The books that the other person referred to by Jane Goodall have more merit than any AR argument, I've never seen a conservationist AR person go and spend months and months really studying animals. They take one thought and take it to the extreme. You discrediting that is incredibly ignorant on your part.
Again, to round off this post:
In a perfect world, zoos wouldnt have to exist. Sadly, we are not in that world....
If you dont mind, may I ask what this experience was? They are and can be very, very nasty.I can see both sides of the argument but having personally dealt with PETA in the past
Questionable, but reasonable (in terms of culling). It's a very hard pill to swallow, but honestly we have no option but to understand and respect their reasoning.
Years ago Peta went after some area trappers and hunters and interfered with hunting and destroyed traps , they also went after several mink ranches and released the mink illegally. They went after a couple of cattle and hog slaughter houses. They tried to seize dogs using a search warrant based on made up evidence that the local sheriff dept investigated and found to be untrue and they continually trespassed on private property. The Peta groups that did this were from big cities and had money and political friends. After this several law were passed to protect hunters, fishermen and trappers from being harassed.
Completely crossing the line there, BOTH figuratively and literally. I have my own opinions for the argument of using fur products and such, but no one deserves to be harassed as such. If you want to get over an issue, go and have a civil conversation. But this is PETA we're speaking of....
