How to raise GH without PH getting too alkaline.

[Somethingsfishy001]

I'm keeping livebearers: platy, molly, guppies.
The platy and guppy do ok, but the molly's always have issues. I lose fish every now and again to common livebearer diseases.
My tank parameters have always been good. I use an Api kit. Ammonia: 0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: 5-10, Ph 7.8, temp 78. Water change 10-30% each week (depending on the tank). Always add bacteria start and dechlorinator.
So I think my issue is the GH. I know livebearers like hard water. (Strange thing is, I asked my fish store what their gh is and they said they dont even monitor it cause its not essential for fish, only for the shrimp).
My tap water GH is 1-2. My tanks are often 3. I have added crushed up shells, cuttlebone, and eggshells. Sometimes I can get the GH to 5, but then my ph is 8.3, which is starting to get a bit high for my guppies.
Currently I have been adding crushed up eggshells, and the GH is at 3, and the Ph is at 7.9.
So my question is how can I get my water to be harder for them without having a PH that is too high for them???

 

[Essjay]

Most fish stores don't have a clue about fish, unfortunately; all they are interested in is making money.

You need to get the water a lot harder than that, I'm afraid; 14 dH is the minimum for mollies, though 11 is OK for guppies and platies. With a basic pH (over 7.0) the eggshells, cuttlebone etc will only dissolve slightly and do very little to increase hardness.

You need a water additive which increases both GH and KH. As I'm in a different country I'll have to wait until someone who knows which products are available to you to recommend something.

 

[Anthony1976]

Try using seachem equilibrium. I use it for my rainwater which I mix 50/50 with tapwater. I’m of the understanding that it will raise the general hardness of your water but it won’t affect ph.

 

[Essjay]

Aha, I knew I'd read something about Equilibrium. It seems that Equilibrium is minerals for plants, while Replenish is the one for increasing hardness for fish.

Seachem make two re-mineralization agents, one called Equilibrium and the other called Replenish. They are not interchangeable, but intended for different purposes. I discussed this with a technician at Seachem a couple of years back as I was then using Equilibrium and wondered about Replenish.

Equilibrium is solely intended to supplement certain minerals for plants to take up. Primarily calcium and magnesium, though it contains iron, potassium, and one or two others if memory serves me. Those of us with zero GH/KH tap water, or who use RO water, and have live plants, need to provide sufficient minerals for the health of the plant. Liquid comprehensive fertilizers provide these but the "hard" minerals calcium and magnesium are minimal because these occur in the source (tap) water of most areas. There are also substrate tabs that provide comprehensive nutrients. Depending upon the plant species and number, both the liquid and the substrate may still be insufficient with respect to the hard minerals, and that is what Equilibrium is intended to rectify.

The Seachem technician explained that Equilibrium does not provide the minerals fish require, it is solely plant-oriented. So for those like me who might have heavily-planted tanks of very soft water fish species, Equilibrium is the better product to increase the calcium, etc for plants.

Fish that require moderately hard or harder water, and where the source water is like mine very soft, will be deficient in certain minerals. These are provided in Replenish, not Equilibrium, according to Seachem. So if one is keeping hard water fish like livebearers where the source water is very soft or soft, Replenish added to the tank water should provide the necessary minerals for the fish. Plants may or may not be present, and I have no idea if one can use just the Replenish to provide minerals for both fish and plants. I didn't go into that with Seachem as it was not my issue.

 

[Anthony1976]

Aha, I knew I'd read something about Equilibrium. It seems that Equilibrium is minerals for plants, while Replenish is the one for increasing hardness for fish.

Yes you are right, I have heavily planted tanks that’s y I went the equilibrium way it’s the other one that would be best

 

[Somethingsfishy001]

I'm looking into getting some Equilibrium. Hopefully it doesn't raise the PH too much. I was crushing the cuttlebone into powder and it would raise the GH, but also the PH. I have seen people grind the eggshell into powder too.
I was hoping to use eggshells as they seemed like a much cheaper option.
Also after looking it up they seemed to have similar ingredients. So it's odd why it woudn't work.

SEACHEM EQUILIBRIUM

SEACHEM REPLENISH

 

[Essjay]

For fish, you need to compare your eggshells with Replenish rather than Equilibrium. Seachem employees have said that Equilibrium has minerals for plants while Replenish has minerals for fish.

The main difference between eggs shells and products such as Replenish is that the products are liquids which instantly add minerals to the water while eggshells need to dissolve first.

 

[Somethingsfishy001]

I have gotten my GH to 6 in my shrimp tank without the ph being too high by adding driftwood, so I can add the powdered cuttlebone and eggshells, which increase the Ph, but the driftwood naturally decreases it.

 

[Somethingsfishy001]

For fish, you need to compare your eggshells with Replenish rather than Equilibrium. Seachem employees have said that Equilibrium has minerals for plants while Replenish has minerals for fish.

I was gonna get the equilibrium because all my tanks are also planted

 

[Essjay]

You need to increase GH for fish, that's more important as you have hard water fish in soft water.

I have never used any 'hardening' products as I have soft water and keep soft water fish, so I don't know how much they would raise the pH. But guppies, platies and mollies don't have a problem with high pH so it doesn't really matter if they do increase pH.

 

[Somethingsfishy001]

Ah ok. So after looking online, it seems that both REPLENISH and EQUILIBRIUM do not raise the PH because they do not have the same buffering agents. My guess is that both cuttlebone and eggshell contain calcium carbonate just like crushed coral or shells, which raise the PH. Whereas, it looks like the SEACHEM products contain calcium chloride, and calcium sulfate. So my best guess is that the different forms of calcium really matter. I was under the naive impression that any calcium would be similar.

SEACHEM website says this under REPLENISH:
"To restore GH in the planted aquarium, we recommend Equilibrium™. "

"
Equilibrium™

• Restores and maintains mineral balance and GH
• Does not contain sodium or chloride like competing products
• Ideally suited for use with RO or DI water or any mineral deficient water "

" Equilibrium™ raises the essential mineral/electrolyte content (General Hardness) of the water to balance with and promote stability of the carbonate hardness. "

So I am gonna check out this product and balance out my tank before getting any more live bearers. The soft water tetras seem to be loving it though.

Odd, the fish store doesnt measure the GH, as they are not like big box stores (not a chain store). They take the time to quarantine fish, and use API liquid kits to measure water and such.
But for the most part I tend to trust Corey's advice from Aquarium Coop. He also doesnt live too far from me so the water is usually similar (soft water issues).

 

[Somethingsfishy001]

But guppies, platies and mollies don't have a problem with high pH so it doesn't really matter if they do increase pH.

But it does matter when the PH starts getting out of range. As far as I know guppy/platy max PH is usually 8, and Molly is 8.5. My PH in the tanks is already 7.8 - 8 so it doesnt take much for it to be very high.

 

[Essjay]

The soft water tetras seem to be loving it though.

Do you have tetras in the same tank?

If you do have soft water fish in the same tank as the livebearers you can't make the water suitable for both of them. This needs to be looked at before anything is added to the tank.


Don't believe everything you see on Aquarium Coop's website/videos. Other members have commented that he is not always accurate.

Very few fish stores bother with things like hardness. Most of them probably have no idea it is important.

 

[Somethingsfishy001]

Do you have tetras in the same tank?

If you do have soft water fish in the same tank as the livebearers you can't make the water suitable for both of them. This needs to be looked at before anything is added to the tank.


Don't believe everything you see on Aquarium Coop's website/videos. Other members have commented that he is not always accurate.

Very few fish stores bother with things like hardness. Most of them probably have no idea it is important.

There are a couple male guppies in the tank with the tetra (rummy nose), and a few cories. They are in a separate tank from the other female guppies.
I will be separating them. The plan is a separate tank for guppies with harder water. The tetras will be left in the soft water. I was hoping to put the cories with my livebearers, but not sure how much hardness they can handle (False Julii I think).

Unfortunately there is lots of debate in the fish community. I often follow multiple sources. I also have some fish-keeping books and encyclopedias that I look to. The reason I like his videos is that there have been so many things in them that have helped me out.

 

[Somethingsfishy001]

Do you have tetras in the same tank?

If you do have soft water fish in the same tank as the livebearers you can't make the water suitable for both of them. This needs to be looked at before anything is added to the tank.

In short, no the tetras will be separated and not have their water hardened.