How Do You Class A New Species?

[Gnatfish]

Hello

I posted this question earlier today, but for some reason it double posted, so i reported it and the mods deleted both posts

Anyhoo, how do you class a new species? What has to be different for a fish to be a different species? Whats the difference between new species and just a variation?

Also, if a new species is discovered, how do they come up with the scientific name?

Lots of questions lol

Thanks

Gnatfish

 

[QuotheRaven]

In what I have read the naming of a species refers to one its general scientific name then a chosen name by the discoverer... so say I found a new shell dweller I would name it Neolamprogulus Quothiravenous...however usually the second name involves some sort of meaning like a different language so the word chosen means something without being obvious...thats what I think anyway...

 

[AngelPen]

I'm currently doing a biology degree so might be of help!

The definition of a different species rather than just a variation of the same species, is when the 2 can't reproduce.

As for the sceintific name I'm not too sure. It's all to do with the classification of the organism, a species name consists of the genus and the species, eg we are Homo sapiens, so I guess the type of fish would have a specfic genus shared with its close relations, and then a new species name which would differentiate it from the rest! All scientific names are in Latin, just to confuse us I think and make it harder to remember the names!

Hope some of that makes sense!

 

[Gnatfish]

Thanks both of you

That has cleared it up.

 

[jayjay]

The definition of a different species rather than just a variation of the same species, is when the 2 can't reproduce.

Then how do we get hybrids? Two species breeding together.....

The ending of the 'second' part of the name, ends with a specific ending depending on the gender of it's discoverer I think.

To identify a new species, you'd need to count scales and rays, compare it to anything similar, try and find it's genus. Then I'd probably think you'd need to send one to an ichthyologist to be truely classed and recorded.

 

[Lynden]

I'm currently aspiring for a marine biology degree so I hope I can help too

There is no valid definition of species, actually. The term means nothing - nowadays anyway - it is only the word we use to refer to a life form. It used to mean "a group of animals that can breed with each other" but that meaning was later found to be invalid, since hybrids are so common.

Scientific names usually are Greek or Roman words - but can potentially be of any language, even Inuit. The Genus name (the first of the binomial) is usually the name of something physical - like a rock, a tool, or a plant - in the chosen language. (My Latin needs some work; I can't give any examples here). The second name, the Species Name, can also be an object, but it is more often the name of an emotional or physical trait in the chosen language (for example, Xiphophorus maculata, maculata being a Latin word that means spotted, dotted, or netted; that is, if I remember correctly). It could also be the name of either the discoverer, the describer, or a person that was honorable or made a difference in the discoverer's life. In which case, an i follows the person's name if the person was male, or an ae follws the name of a female. (example: Apistogramma agassizi; in which the name honors Proffessor Agassiz; and Psuedotropheus estherae, in which Esther was honored). It can also be the name of a place, such as japonicus in the case of the popular Amano Shrimp.

Hopefully someone will correct me and fill in what's missing if I were wrong...

-Lynden

 

[xoedusk]

Then how do we get hybrids? Two species breeding together.....

I'm going on what I hear... I believe two things are the same species if (a) they can reproduce, and (B) their young can procreate. For example a mule. Horse + Donkey = Mule. Mule is sterile. But still horse and donkey are different species.

There have been extremely rare cases of mules breeding horses, I think. Or donkeys. I forget.

 

[jayjay]

Lyden amano shrimp are Caridina multidentata. (They were reclassified).

I've seen on this forum people breed hybrids, there are some threads on the hybrid section, in which one person bred two species to make a hybrid, then some of the offspring with another species to make another hybrid.

 

[Gnatfish]

So basically everythings just as confusing as before

 

[blackbat]

2 vodkas mixed with antibiotics and lack of sleep makes me think it is too late to be reading this thread heehee very interesting tho

 

[karin15]

If I discoverd a fish or bred one i would call it whatever the heck I felt like calling it, if it was cute i would name it a karin fish mwahahaha, and if it was ugly i would name it a mom fish tehehehehe huh...
don't listen to me i'm hyper

 

[Lynden]

If I discoverd a fish or bred one i would call it whatever the heck I felt like calling it, if it was cute i would name it a karin fish mwahahaha, and if it was ugly i would name it a mom fish tehehehehe huh...
don't listen to me i'm hyper

Uh... ha ha?

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Scientific names are infinetly more important than common names, and if you named a fish "Karin Fish" then it would remain an undescribed species until it was given a proper name. You could perhaps call it Ichthyus karinae, assuming that name wasn't in use already, in which case it would have to be changed.

From time to time life forms will be reclassified, like the Amano Shrimp, which Jayjay pointed out. Another example would be the formerly large genus Cichlasoma, which used to include many fish such as the Convict Cichlid, formerly Cichlasoma nigrofasciatus, currently Archocentrus nigrofasciatus, and the Jack Dempsey, formerly C. octofasciatum, currently Nandopsis octofasciatum (correct me if I'm wrong; I'm working from memory here) . The genus Cichlasoma now includes but a single species, the one that was originally classified as a member of the genus Cichlasoma.

Remember that scientific names are always in italics, and that the genus name is capitalized.

-Lynden

 

[karin15]

or karin fish could just be z common name? and then the long unnessisary name, i mean in this day and age we dont need the name to discribe the fish we have databases and computers and books for gods sake, look up karin fish and then get all the information most people don't get anything out of the name and who cares about latin they need to use english or even beter french? or they could personalize it to whatever languge you spoke in derect translation that way it would sound weird and be usefull, since scienctist like to give things weird names yes that would work too

 

[Lynden]

It might work, but remember that common names are often repeated. How many Rummy-nosed Tetras do you know of? How would you know exactly what you have unless you knew it's scientific name? Also, that might work for English, but what about the rest of the world. In Germany, for instance, our Convict Cichlid is called the Zebra Cichlid, and our Zebra Cichlid is an Mbuna. Things would get so confusing with common names ( I hate them sometimes, in fact ), but scientific names are globally understood, therefore eliminating the confusion.

-Lynden

 

[karin15]

It might work, but remember that common names are often repeated. How many Rummy-nosed Tetras do you know of? How would you know exactly what you have unless you knew it's scientific name? Also, that might work for English, but what about the rest of the world. In Germany, for instance, our Convict Cichlid is called the Zebra Cichlid, and our Zebra Cichlid is an Mbuna. Things would get so confusing with common names ( I hate them sometimes, in fact ), but scientific names are globally understood, therefore eliminating the confusion.

-Lynden

yeah which is why we have the scientific name the common name like say fantail gold fish you could say the family or what ever else to discribe it and then the common name last witch would also be the sci name soo

fish.goldfish.(anything even more spacific).fantail

and in french say
poissons.goldfish.(**).fantail or something like that not to sure but the present systom lacks effeciantcy