Honey Gourami Really Sick

Hi Twinklecaz

Saw your note to me on that other forum message so thought I'd reply here. Sorry to hear your gourami didn't survive. I had a look at the photos and agree that they both look sickly, quite thin and boney and nothing much like the honey gourami's at my LFS. Do a Google search on them and you'll see loads of pics on just how a healthy one should look.

I went through all your posts and made a note of everything you said that was wrong with your gourami:

Listless (hiding/resting behind filter etc)
pale
tiny red marks
droopy tail
cloudy eyes
split tail
wobbly swimming
dark body/head before death

I suspect this was a fungal infection that lead to bacterial at a later stage. Fungal infections start off with weight loss despite the fish continuing to eat. Then it affects their swimming. They can develop tiny ulcers and their fins become torn/ragged-looking. Sometimes this is caused from their abnormal swimming behaviour causing them to catch their fins on tank objects, or it can be from the bacterial infection itself.

As I mentioned in that other forum post, the darkening of the body and head just before death is where the internal organs are infected and rupturing.

Do you have any Protozin or equivalent medication that you can begin treating your other fish with?

With these things it is difficult to treat because they are internal and usually by the time you notice something is wrong with the fish, a lot of damage has been done inside them already. But you never know - sometimes it's possible to stop it in its tracks if you act quickly enough.

As they say, prevention is better than cure (and a lot cheaper too LOL). So it's important to try to find out what has caused this in the first place. Actually, if you say those photos were taken when you bought the fish, then more than likely they already had the start of something nasty at that time as they don't look in tip top condition to me.

When you buy fish from your LFS try to check them over before accepting them. If they show any outward signs of looking abnormal in any way, even if they just look a bit thin compared to others in the tank - ask the assistant to net you another one. You don't have to accept the fish just because they've netted it. If you're able to watch the tank for 5-10 mins to observe them all in the tank you will often be able to spot those that look healthy - and those that don't. Personally, it puts me off buying a fish if there are sickly fish in the tank aswell.

The other bit of advice I'd give is not to go over the top with water changes. Some of the advice I read on these forums scares me because some would have you doing a water change every day! Really not necessary and it doesn't do your filter bacteria any good as you then starve them of the ammonia that they need to survive.

I think some people think that once their tank is cycled then the more water changes they do the healthier their tank will be...but that only leads to the filter bacteria dying off, which defeats the whole purpose of cycling it in the first place LOL

A well-maintained tank with an appropriate filter, adequate stock, no overfeeding etc etc doesn't really need more than a 25% water change every fortnight.

The problem most of us have at the early stages is reaching that status quo - the point at which everything is stable and unchanging.

Remember, though, that as your stock levels change, so will your filter bacteria levels. Whenever you add any fish to your tank you are then making a change and your filter needs to adapt to this change.

Large water changes of, say, 50% are only really needed at times when there's chemical spikes or certain illnesses present (e.g. fin rot is helped by small, regular water changes).

Well, I think that's enough from me for now LOL - gosh, don't I go on :hyper:

Regards, Athena
 
The other bit of advice I'd give is not to go over the top with water changes. Some of the advice I read on these forums scares me because some would have you doing a water change every day! Really not necessary and it doesn't do your filter bacteria any good as you then starve them of the ammonia that they need to survive.

This is the only thing I would disagree with as the theory is actually just wrong (sorry).

The fish produce ammonia at the exact same rate that the bacs convert it (hence a reading of 0). Doing large water changes doesn't starve the bacteria at all, that's a very old school train of thought and has been explained and disproven many times.
 
^Hmmm, surely if the bacs are converting the ammonia (and the nitrite I hope) at the same rate the fish produce it, then why would you need to do continueous water changes? I agree that 25% is enough every fortnight in a properly filtered tank.
P.
 
^Hmmm, surely if the bacs are converting the ammonia (and the nitrite I hope) at the same rate the fish produce it, then why would you need to do continueous water changes? I agree that 25% is enough every fortnight in a properly filtered tank.
P.

You don't need to do continuous water changes/daily water changes unless you're fish-in cycling/have ammonia/nitrites present.

Equally you only need to do significantly large water changes in a cycled tank if you're trying to remove something like medication from the water (and don't have any activated carbon handy).

As for the weekly water changes. They are considered neccesary for a few reasons, in most tanks nitrates build up over the period of the week and need to manually lowered by means of a water change. The size of the water change depends on how high the tank nitrates are in comparison to the tap water value.
They are used to keep the tank water refreshed of any minerals that may/will have been used through the week by fish and plants.
And also they are used to keep the tank water close enough to the tap water value that if for some reason you need to do a large water change (removing meds, ammonia/nitrite spike, you move the fish to a bigger tank), the fish aren't shocked by a large change in pH or the dissolved mineral content.
 
I guess we shall just have to agree to disagree on this point. As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating...


Regards, Athena
 
I guess we shall just have to agree to disagree on this point. As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating...


Regards, Athena

Except that with respect to the bacteria being starved it's not my opinion you're disagreeing with it's scientific fact.

With respect to a water change schedule, yes it is subjective (so my opinion). But again it is a fact that fish and plants will use up the available minerals in the water, and these will need to be replenished somehow. As there is no cheap and easy way to monitor them, decent sized weekly water changes are the most sensible solution.
That and that with most tanks they are needed to keep the nitrates down.

Edit:
And just to add that 'back in the day' when the done thing was to do few water changes, and only do small ones when you did, the general teaching was 'large water changes are bad for fish', cause whenever they did them fish died.
This was down to the fact that the tank had been allowed to get so far from tap water conditions that the fish were literally shocked to death by the water change.
 
Hi Athena, thanks for your reply.

So you think I should treat my other fish? They all seem happy enough right now but they do have the ragged fins so hopefully if there is anything I can catch it early enough. Not heard of protzin but will definitely get some if you think that's what I need.

I have some Interpret Anti internal bacteria med, some Interpret Fin Rot med (but I used that last weekend) and some Interpret General Tonic. Are any of those the ticket or so you think Protozin is the way to go?

Btw I did one last water change today and don't intend to do another one for a while. I swear my fish are sticking one fin up at me when I go near the tank :lol:

I can also only assume this infection came from the LFS coz I really don't know what I can have done to cause it otherwise, I take really good care of my fish and water (lol if I do say so myself). I'm gonna try and take another pic of my remaining Honey over the weekend to see if you lot think he looks any better than the first pic :)
 
Hey

Yesterday I thought I'd try my Anti-Internal Bacteria med in my tank, figuring that if Ruby had it they prob all have just at a much earlier stage and also my male seems a big subdued (btw, does anyone think that could be coz the female's gone?)

Today when I looked at my tank the first thing that hit me was my male Honey G's colour. He's all of a sudden so much more yellow and kinda sparkly in a way he wasn't before. So I think you may have hit the nail on the head Athena so thanks.

Obv I need to do another dose on Wednesday but I'm hoping this could be the end of their problems. My Honey G also has a kinda darkened head (always has had) so I'm gonna keep an eye on that too to see if it goes.

:)
 

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