Help with treating my betta

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queenrogue

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Okay so spoiler: this is gonna be a lengthy post. Because I want to give you a clear view of my daily/weekly life with these fishes. So Iā€™m gonna state my main problem first ā€“ is my betta sick? I will get into what I think are the red flags in a bit.

So I got my red half moon betta earlier this year, I named him Sushi (lol please donā€™t judge I thought of so many names like Crimson or Ruby or Scarlet but they didnā€™t really sound good to me and Sushi was the one I liked best)ā€¦ After a month or two I added 2 tiger plecos & 10 cardinal tetras (used to be 10 but became 7 because I lost 3 which I will explain later).

He has an about 3gal tank (Iā€™m not really good at math but my tank size is 20x30cm by 30cm height and when I did a conversion online it turned out to be between 2.6 to 3 gal)ā€¦ I know its not big enough for Sushi plus his other tank mates but the guy from the fish shop says itā€™s not gonna be a potential issue if I add that much fish in the tank and I didnā€™t know any better at that time so for now I just try to provide all of the fishes as much as I can and at the moment I canā€™t afford to upgrade to a much bigger tank.

At first Sushi is very active and always go to the front of the tank when he sees me coming over. He eats whatever food he sees floating or sinking, and an overall very active betta.

Now I will elaborate on the other fishes firstā€¦

After a while I got the two tiger plecos, properly acclimated and all, he had a bit of pin holes and after a few days of water change every 2 days, his fins healed completely. He chases and pokes the tiger plecos the first few days the plecos joined the tank, after a while he just swims around them (and even hides together with the tiger plecos in one of the corners of my tank, it even looked like he was kinda clingy at that moment coz he hid like how the plecos hid lol).

Their feeding habits was I didnā€™t feed them algae wafers until most of the algae in my tank were gone, and then I started feeding them 1 mini algae wafers each (so 2 in total), once in the morning and once at night.

After a week of getting the tiger plecos, I decided to add the 10 tetras. Also properly acclimated and placed in the tank. I will list down the three tetra loss below:

Tetra 0: This one is not a death but more of me thinking that this is a red flag with regards to my bettaā€™s health. This tetra looked skinny and like he havenā€™t eaten for a few days when I first got him, and was having trouble with buoyancy, as he seemed to struggled staying in the middle of the tank and kept floating on top of the tank. I tried to feed him but he wasnā€™t swimming up to the food and the other tetras end up eating the food that I give him. Surprisingly he looks better and eating better and until now he still lives and now heā€™s more brave and not letting the other tetras get to his food first.

Tetra 1: This one died at day 3 and due to unknown causes. I just found him lying at the bottom of the tank without eyesā€¦. Also to take note that my bettaā€™s stomach started bloating at the same time as thisā€¦ RIP lil guyā€¦.

Tetra 2: This oneā€™s life was short lived because day 2 of getting him he jumped out of the tank and I only realized it the next morning when he was all dried up on my floor. RIP another lil guyā€¦

Note: There's another tetra that was lying at the bottom of the tank (but I can't remember which tetra because the day after that all of the living tetras are shoaling together) - it happened the same as when Tetra 0 started and I wanted to isolate both of them in a small bowl so I can monitor them closely and feed separately but my fish seller said it will just kill them fasterā€¦ So I didnā€™t continue with the isolation.

Tetra 3: This one died just this morning actually the day after I let my fish fast and he looked okay and well-fed (not skinny at all he was the biggest cardinal fish in my tank) and as of today the cause of his death was still unknownā€¦. RIP and I hope youā€™re the last one to die ):

Overall the tetras just swim in a group and when they wake up in the morning theyā€™re actually all scattered around the tank and will later regain their color as they group up after that.

In terms of their relationship with Sushi, he just swims around them and disturb them but goes back to his won business afterwards.

Okay now back to Sushiā€¦.

I usually feed him pellets and only fed him for 2 minutes, twice a day. Every Sunday was his fasting day. I read online about feeding a betta and most of the results states that to only feed him whatever he can finish within 2 minutes, and no more than 2 times a day. I did that and he started becoming fat (not bloatedā€¦.yet) so I put him on a diet only feeding him once a day (with that same routine, 2minutes feeding) and I know he didnā€™t like it (I know this from tail biting that resulted right after the diet started) so I went back to feeding him twice per day, but for about 4-5 pellets each feeding.

He had developed fin rot a day after putting the cardinal tetras in the tank, and developed pin holes resulting the fins tearing making him look like he has 4 main fins, so I checked with the fish seller and he advised me to put black water in the tank. After a while my bettaā€™s fins are healing. His pin holes seem to heal pretty quick as fast as by 24hours but the tear on his fins is slow but healing stillā€¦ It looks like part of his fin is growing because I see that his ā€œincandescent markingsā€ (the part of his fins that glows in the dark and is originally only is seen near his caudal peduncle) is growing together with the part of his fin that is ā€œsproutingā€ outwards. Iā€™ll try to insert some photos for better understanding.

He started having bloated stomach a week ago when Tetra # 2 died, and thatā€™s why I did the fasting. I concluded that he had constipation. I thought that he ate the tetra so I was kinda disappointed with him but all I could do is to treat him just in case itā€™s something serious. I fed him part of a green pea (thawed and crushed) and his stomach seemed to be smaller and back to his usual ā€œfatā€ self. So I went back to the usual 4-5 pellets each feedingā€¦

Now his stomach bothers me because it looks bigger again and Iā€™m super worried because according to all of my google research Dropsy is usually mistaken as constipationā€¦ Thereā€™s no signs of pineconing on him (and I pray everyday that he doesnā€™t pinecone and that his bloating is just because of constipation) he just seems bloated. His stomach is a bit pale (his stomach is normally paler in color compared to the rest of his body) but Iā€™m like 150% worried coz any small thing I will take them as a red flag and I really donā€™t want my betta to have Dropsy because I love him and I just want the best for him. I donā€™t think I will have the stomach to euthanize him if ever the worst happens to him.

His current behaviour are as follows:

I used to play 'follow my finger' with him and he used to follow my finger for an extended period of time (like 3 minutes?) but now he just follows my finger once and then swims away.

He still comes to the front of the tank when I walk over but the difference between now and last time was he sometimes just stares at me for a while and then swims away. He used to just be excited and stay at the front of the tank staring at me until I leave (i know I kinda sound clingy over a fish that lost interest in its owner lol but I just want to state it here as I'm not sure if it might or might not be a contributing factor to his health).

He still eats properly and has no change in his attitude when feedingā€¦ Whenever itā€™s the tetrasā€™ turn to be fed, Sushi sometimes will try to steal their food so I hand feed the him and the tetras separatelyā€¦ The pellets are pre-soaked and I use the mini dropper to suck the soaked pellets from the plate and dropped directly in the water one by one. He knows how the food bottle looks like and will start his wiggle dance towards the front od the tank when he sees the bottle.

He still swims around and disturbs other fish but after swimming around chasing them he goes back to his spot on top of is favourite plant to rest. Sometimes he will try to find food at the bottom of the tank only to find his friendsā€™ poop which will get cleaned out as well. When heā€™s not doing any of that he will sometimes go inside the decosā€¦. like hide inside the dino decos, or will swim under the shells and will come out and go back to his resting place, or at the hammock when itā€™s feeding time.

As of today he stopped flaring when I showed the mirror to himā€¦ He usually flares when he sees the mirror but today he either stares at it like he doesnā€™t care at all, or just swims away from it like heā€™s scared/startled.

This is the first time I am seeing that kind of behaviour from him in front of the mirror.

Now for my tank parameters:

I do a weekly water change about 20-30% and a 10-15ml dose of beneficial bacteria (10ml for the weekly water change and 15% when I do a 40% water change)..

The aquarium salt is also replenished and mixed together with the new water. Sometimes I add a little bit directly in the tank when Sushi has fin rot and it seems to be working as his fin heals quite fast.

Water filter was customized by the fish seller so instead of the typical plastic sponge he used a different material (I canā€™t remember the name but itā€™s kind of like a porous ceramic?) and the sponge is replaced every two weeks or whenever I see fit.

I also put a pump or less of liquid fertilizer for the plants whenever I see fit.

Ammonia levels are at 0 and pH levels are at 7 constantly. I check water parameters every mid week. And it has never gone up or down, it just stays at those two readings constantly..

Let me know if thereā€™s more information that you need to know and I will reply as soon as I can!

I used to have a heater but I'm scared that it becomes faulty and boil the tank so I removed it. Temperature stays at 26-30Āŗ C anyway and I live in Singapore which is a tropical country.

So basically my main problem is his bloating and his sudden change of attitude towards the mirror today. Based on the events that happened these past few months am I doing anything wrong?

I am thinking of going back to his green pea diet from tomorrow morning onwardsā€¦ His fins look like itā€™s recovering and even growing so I donā€™t really worry about it too muchā€¦ But if itā€™s a sign of something serious, please tell this fish mama so I can treat any problems as soon as I can! :)

Thank you so much in advanced and sorry for the lengthy post!! I just want to provide as much information as possible and I resorted to going to the forums because my fish seller doesn't really give elaborate answers and only tells me to "do a water change every 3 days" or "feed lesser" most of the time he just replies my messages in a phrase and doesnt really elaborate on what I'm doing wrong or even explain why whatever is happening, is happening...

Now I'm gonna post a few photos for reference, you won't see the tiger plecos by the way, they're usually hiding behind or under or in the decos when I turn the lights on.

4B8CC4BB-2D50-461C-8AE4-3EF39E7BB7A4.jpeg
B020E042-D84F-4FD1-9E6C-8F820A1E5952.jpeg
A857880C-31CB-4897-AF83-BC3CF3ABB622.jpeg
14424F61-459D-4FAB-9968-0540652B3BD7.jpeg
46F98328-CBF9-4301-8062-512DF70F0DF8.jpeg

983CD691-366B-4EEE-979E-38D8025B889D.jpeg
 
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That tank is way too overstocked. I understand you may not have financial capacity yet but a clear 5 gallon bucket for the plecos or anything will be better! 3 gallons for that much is incredibly dangerous. You must invest at the earliest convenience into a bigger tank for the plecos or tetras. 2 tiger plecos need at least 30-40 gallons in my opinion due to being territorial irregardless
 
Hi.
First of all can I just say that Sushi is so beautiful! :)
Unfortunately I agree that the tank is overstocked. The filter may not be coping and the water may be unhealthy. Check your nitrite and nitrate levels, make sure they are okay.
In my opinion a 3 gallon tank is big enough for a betta, of course, it is not ideal, but I think he will do just fine - but only alone and not with other plecos and fish.
All of the fish may be stressed because they are quite cramped and the betta has lived alone for a while so he is not used to all the company. Please try to get a larger tank and move the plecos and tetras, if I were you I would leave the Betta in the tank he is currently in and move the others to a larger tank but it is up to you. :)

Regarding the fish shop owner - unfortunately many fish shop owners and assistants care more about the income rather than the fishes welfare, however I am not saying all fish shop owners do - I have talked to many who keep their fish in nice conditions and are happy to help.

Now, Sushis bloated stomach.....
If I were asked I would also say its constipation or possibly swim bladder disease. If Sushi is constipated, some other symptoms could be lack of appetite, and you might not have seen him go to the toilet in a while. If you do not already, I would recommend occasionally feeding bloodworms to Sushi, but only as a treat as they are very rich in fat and protein. Also you could try to fast Sushi for 2 or 3 days, not just one. Swim bladder disease can be treated with a special water treatment. Some symptoms for this could be trouble swimming and your fish not being active. You may also see a curved back. Sometimes swim bladder happens if the fish is stressed, so maybe the new arrival of all the fish stressed Sushi out, however I don't know. If it is dropsy then you should see pine cone scales, which you do not, so I doubt it would be dropsy.

Here is a link that may help.
Betta fish bloated...

However I'm not an expert in Bettas so these are just suggestions.
I hope this helps. :)
 
I agree with the above.

On his stomach, did it swell up suddenly over a day or two? Or over weeks?

As it is so overstocked you need to be doing 90% water changes every day, if you dont there will be severe ammonia spikes which will kill themall.

Did you cycle your tank?
 
Thank you for your replies! And @aqua.land thank you as well for the comprehensive detail!

I actually came across the link that you provided previously, now I do have to agree with you guys that he might be stressed out due to the his new tankmates... Especially when I added the tetras there was a significant change in my betta physically on his fins and (emotionally?) behaviour-wise. I check his fins everyday for any changes and if I see a pin hole or a tear on his fins I will try to do some 'investigative work' to see what could be the cause of it.

The fish seller knows my tank well (size, parameters, my betta and current tank inhabitants) - basically he is very much updated with everything about my tank, the only thing that I was concerned about is that he is not very informative and comprehensive everytime he gives me advice...

So when it comes to the plecos, I am quite shocked about the information that I got from you guys that the tiger plecos require at least 40gal tank. The seller said that the tiger plecos that I got will grow to a size of 7" max. He initially sold me 1 pleco. I asked him how many I can add in my tank with the betta and he said 2 is okay. So I got two plecos. I admit that the pleco part I didn't give much research on it and that part I take full responsibility of it... as I was relying on the seller a lot (he was super informative and helpful at first). If I need to return at least the 1 pleco I don't think he will take it back (I don't even know if there's such thing), and I can try to give the one pleco to a friend but the thing is his tank is one size smaller than mine. So I thought that the best thing to do under my situation is to get a bigger tank for the fishes. I would still love to keep at least 1 pleco as he helps eat out the algae in my tank. I can't run two tanks at the same time with two filters as my power extensions are fully occupied, and I can't risk plugging more things by doing the 'plug extension-ception' coz after this lockdown throughout the day I am mostly working and when there's no more lockdown I won't be able to monitor the tank 24/7 and I don't want any plug being faulty and end up short-circuiting the filters. I know it happened to a friend of mine before...

I also didn't think much about the plecos coz they have their own hiding spot each, and they don't really bother each other except for when they bump into each other they will poke a bit but one will separate itself from the other and then they're back to cleaning the decos/glass/pebbles. When I feed them also I separate the algae wafers at both sides of the tank and eventually they will still bump into each other but they don't really fight a lot they will just poke as usual and go back to their own businesses.

So will it solve the issue if I get a bigger tank of at least 50% bigger than my current tank now for the fishes? Is there any way that I could keep at least 1 pleco in my tank If I make the tank bigger? I will try to ask my friend if he wants to adopt my 1 pleco or I will ask the fish seller first if they can rehome 1 pleco.. I kinda have this false hope about keeping both plecos in my tank coz I get too attached with my fishes easily but I know that's more impossible than otherwise.

I am not a fish expert and as you can tell I am still new to the hobby and still learning a lot from mistakes and from reading up online on forums and websites and youtube guides.

Thanks for your advice again!
 
I agree with the above.

On his stomach, did it swell up suddenly over a day or two? Or over weeks?

As it is so overstocked you need to be doing 90% water changes every day, if you dont there will be severe ammonia spikes which will kill themall.

Did you cycle your tank?

His stomach swelled up within two days, and after green pea diet it became smaller, then big again. By the time of this post his stomach is slightly smaller.

Noted on the more frequent water change.

Tank was cycled with betta in tank and java fern and has been alone in the tank for about 2 months or so.
 
Thank you for your replies! And @aqua.land thank you as well for the comprehensive detail!

I actually came across the link that you provided previously, now I do have to agree with you guys that he might be stressed out due to the his new tankmates... Especially when I added the tetras there was a significant change in my betta physically on his fins and (emotionally?) behaviour-wise. I check his fins everyday for any changes and if I see a pin hole or a tear on his fins I will try to do some 'investigative work' to see what could be the cause of it.

The fish seller knows my tank well (size, parameters, my betta and current tank inhabitants) - basically he is very much updated with everything about my tank, the only thing that I was concerned about is that he is not very informative and comprehensive everytime he gives me advice...

So when it comes to the plecos, I am quite shocked about the information that I got from you guys that the tiger plecos require at least 40gal tank. The seller said that the tiger plecos that I got will grow to a size of 7" max. He initially sold me 1 pleco. I asked him how many I can add in my tank with the betta and he said 2 is okay. So I got two plecos. I admit that the pleco part I didn't give much research on it and that part I take full responsibility of it... as I was relying on the seller a lot (he was super informative and helpful at first). If I need to return at least the 1 pleco I don't think he will take it back (I don't even know if there's such thing), and I can try to give the one pleco to a friend but the thing is his tank is one size smaller than mine. So I thought that the best thing to do under my situation is to get a bigger tank for the fishes. I would still love to keep at least 1 pleco as he helps eat out the algae in my tank. I can't run two tanks at the same time with two filters as my power extensions are fully occupied, and I can't risk plugging more things by doing the 'plug extension-ception' coz after this lockdown throughout the day I am mostly working and when there's no more lockdown I won't be able to monitor the tank 24/7 and I don't want any plug being faulty and end up short-circuiting the filters. I know it happened to a friend of mine before...

I also didn't think much about the plecos coz they have their own hiding spot each, and they don't really bother each other except for when they bump into each other they will poke a bit but one will separate itself from the other and then they're back to cleaning the decos/glass/pebbles. When I feed them also I separate the algae wafers at both sides of the tank and eventually they will still bump into each other but they don't really fight a lot they will just poke as usual and go back to their own businesses.

So will it solve the issue if I get a bigger tank of at least 50% bigger than my current tank now for the fishes? Is there any way that I could keep at least 1 pleco in my tank If I make the tank bigger? I will try to ask my friend if he wants to adopt my 1 pleco or I will ask the fish seller first if they can rehome 1 pleco.. I kinda have this false hope about keeping both plecos in my tank coz I get too attached with my fishes easily but I know that's more impossible than otherwise.

I am not a fish expert and as you can tell I am still new to the hobby and still learning a lot from mistakes and from reading up online on forums and websites and youtube guides.

Thanks for your advice again!
The betta could live in the 3 gallon.

The tetras need a 3 foot long tank.

The plecos need at least 40 gallons.

50% bigger would only be less than 10 gallons, which is better for the betta but still much too small for any of the other fish you have I'm afraid.. you will start to see bad aggression and a die off if you keep them like that.


Please do not listen to this pet store guy. It is clear he has no idea what he is talking about and is telling you very bad advice
 
His stomach swelled up within two days, and after green pea diet it became smaller, then big again. By the time of this post his stomach is slightly smaller.

Noted on the more frequent water change.

Tank was cycled with betta in tank and java fern and has been alone in the tank for about 2 months or so.
Is his poop white and stringy?
 
Thank you for your replies! And @aqua.land thank you as well for the comprehensive detail!

I actually came across the link that you provided previously, now I do have to agree with you guys that he might be stressed out due to the his new tankmates... Especially when I added the tetras there was a significant change in my betta physically on his fins and (emotionally?) behaviour-wise. I check his fins everyday for any changes and if I see a pin hole or a tear on his fins I will try to do some 'investigative work' to see what could be the cause of it.

The fish seller knows my tank well (size, parameters, my betta and current tank inhabitants) - basically he is very much updated with everything about my tank, the only thing that I was concerned about is that he is not very informative and comprehensive everytime he gives me advice...

So when it comes to the plecos, I am quite shocked about the information that I got from you guys that the tiger plecos require at least 40gal tank. The seller said that the tiger plecos that I got will grow to a size of 7" max. He initially sold me 1 pleco. I asked him how many I can add in my tank with the betta and he said 2 is okay. So I got two plecos. I admit that the pleco part I didn't give much research on it and that part I take full responsibility of it... as I was relying on the seller a lot (he was super informative and helpful at first). If I need to return at least the 1 pleco I don't think he will take it back (I don't even know if there's such thing), and I can try to give the one pleco to a friend but the thing is his tank is one size smaller than mine. So I thought that the best thing to do under my situation is to get a bigger tank for the fishes. I would still love to keep at least 1 pleco as he helps eat out the algae in my tank. I can't run two tanks at the same time with two filters as my power extensions are fully occupied, and I can't risk plugging more things by doing the 'plug extension-ception' coz after this lockdown throughout the day I am mostly working and when there's no more lockdown I won't be able to monitor the tank 24/7 and I don't want any plug being faulty and end up short-circuiting the filters. I know it happened to a friend of mine before...

I also didn't think much about the plecos coz they have their own hiding spot each, and they don't really bother each other except for when they bump into each other they will poke a bit but one will separate itself from the other and then they're back to cleaning the decos/glass/pebbles. When I feed them also I separate the algae wafers at both sides of the tank and eventually they will still bump into each other but they don't really fight a lot they will just poke as usual and go back to their own businesses.

So will it solve the issue if I get a bigger tank of at least 50% bigger than my current tank now for the fishes? Is there any way that I could keep at least 1 pleco in my tank If I make the tank bigger? I will try to ask my friend if he wants to adopt my 1 pleco or I will ask the fish seller first if they can rehome 1 pleco.. I kinda have this false hope about keeping both plecos in my tank coz I get too attached with my fishes easily but I know that's more impossible than otherwise.

I am not a fish expert and as you can tell I am still new to the hobby and still learning a lot from mistakes and from reading up online on forums and websites and youtube guides.

Thanks for your advice again!
The fish seller really should be able to take at least one back, especially as a result of false information given. Itā€™s really important to always check fishes need sbefore buying but we all live and learn. Iā€™d suggest upgrading to a 17-20 gallon. I know it seems big but you can get them for cheap and it would change your fish completely. The larger space will really help the pleco, and even if itā€™s not optimal ( you do really want 25+ for one) it will still be much more manageable and help the fishā€™s life. One pleco 7 tetras and one betta in a 20 gallon doesnā€™t seem nearly as bad as in a 3 which quite frankly seems busier than Mumbai at midday. If you do upgrade to this you will not only feel less stress, but so will the fish. Due to containing a pleco regular maintenance is essential, maybe 50% water changes and gravel vacuum weekly ( really doable 30 minutes max.) buy a pleco cave, mine loves it and can help itā€™s nocturnal lifestyle. You seem like you really care so I canā€™t stress enough. Iā€™d still rehome one pleco to the fish store. Iā€™m afraid unless you want a 40 gallon itā€™s not feasible
 
The fish seller really should be able to take at least one back, especially as a result of false information given. Itā€™s really important to always check fishes need sbefore buying but we all live and learn. Iā€™d suggest upgrading to a 17-20 gallon. I know it seems big but you can get them for cheap and it would change your fish completely. The larger space will really help the pleco, and even if itā€™s not optimal ( you do really want 25+ for one) it will still be much more manageable and help the fishā€™s life. One pleco 7 tetras and one betta in a 20 gallon doesnā€™t seem nearly as bad as in a 3 which quite frankly seems busier than Mumbai at midday. If you do upgrade to this you will not only feel less stress, but so will the fish. Due to containing a pleco regular maintenance is essential, maybe 50% water changes and gravel vacuum weekly ( really doable 30 minutes max.) buy a pleco cave, mine loves it and can help itā€™s nocturnal lifestyle. You seem like you really care so I canā€™t stress enough. Iā€™d still rehome one pleco to the fish store. Iā€™m afraid unless you want a 40 gallon itā€™s not feasible

I agree I should have done more research first before getting one (or two in this case)... I will check how big I can get... Really a mistake in my part. Unfortunately I can only do the minimum which is 17gal, I can maybe try to push for 20gal, I know it sounds very irresponsible as a fish owner as I didn't expect to have overcrowding as the main issue due to false info from fish seller. I have very limited space at home and I thought a 3.2gal will be suitable for a betta and some other friends as mentioned by the seller... I shouldn't have trusted the guy 100% in the first place...
 
I agree I should have done more research first before getting one (or two in this case)... I will check how big I can get... Really a mistake in my part. Unfortunately I can only do the minimum which is 17gal, I can maybe try to push for 20gal, I know it sounds very irresponsible as a fish owner as I didn't expect to have overcrowding as the main issue due to false info from fish seller. I have very limited space at home and I thought a 3.2gal will be suitable for a betta and some other friends as mentioned by the seller... I shouldn't have trusted the guy 100% in the first place...
If you cant get another tank I would try to take the fish back and ask for a refund. Make it clear you were given bad info
 
Alright. Hopefully he'll get better soon. After fasting, should I start feeding him with green peas again? Or the pellets are fine on its own?
Feed a pea and then after that move back to pellets :)
 

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