Green Goddess's First Fishless Cycle (240 Ltr)

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1ppm of ammonia = 2.7ppm of nitrite

so 5ppm = 13.7ppm of nitrite..!

Thanks, but it was the high nitrate I was referring to. Nitrate was 40ppm just 24 hours after a full water change. I'm just surprised it rises so quickly.
 
Day 130 in the world's longest fishless cycle. Will this thing ever end? It's currently processing 5ppm of ammonia and nitrite in 24 hours without a problem. I'm occasionally testing after 12 hours but there's still a healthy amount of nitrite present after 12 hours.

Anything else I can do? Another water change perhaps?
 
Ignore the Nitrate, I'm sure you've been told it's effected by Nitrite quite badly.

At this stage I would honestly just think about stocking the fish and just doing water changes to keep them happy. I can't believe how long this cycle has gone on for.

Keep testing the water and ensure it doesn't spike, It sounds ridiculous for it to take this long and it looked like you had a clean week then it just spiked again. I'm so confused!

Is it possible to assume that the built in filter hasn't got the capacity to home enough bacteria to achieve the 12 hour reduction time frame?
 
Hi Joshua,

To be honest, I was also thinking of just putting my fish in early before the cycle has finished. At first I will only be putting two small fancy goldfish in there anyway so that will not be anywhere near the limit for the tank. I could keep testing daily to make sure there are no nasty spikes and then add a few more fish in a few months time. I assume my two little goldfish will not produce anywhere near 5ppm of ammonia daily. You could be right that my filter simply isn't capable of handling 5ppm of ammonia in 12 hours.

I would also be interested in some other people's opinions on this. Waterdrop? Oldman47?
 
Lets hope they can comment, WD somewhat agreed Simon would be ok to put fish in his tank even though it hadn't done the qualification week. He never experienced anything. You're understocking the tank anyway and the 12 hour method is designed to be for 100% stocking.

I personally think you will be fine, even then since goldfish poop is so noticeable you could always gravel vac a lot of it up for the first few days or week.

I can't see the cycle completing, the bacteria explodes at a exponential rate initially and then struggles to get the 12 hour, if anything I would blame the filter for this (in my opinion) not finishing. I would say though with fish in it should cope with the bioload from the fish as its processed consistently rather than in batches.

Wish you the best of luck :good:
 
Yes, I actaully agree with this, even though I am hesitant (hesitant only because I then hate it if it spikes and we've obviously dared it too, lol.) For lack of a better explanation I've begun blaming the differences in filters a bit more for the fact that some systems reach a nice solid 12-hour double zero in two months or less, whereas there seem to be 10 or 15% that take forever like this and usually still have nitrites not making it at 12 hours.

But regardless of the theories, I agree that in GG's case in particular there's just no point in going on with it. Its completely right that the two young goldfish are going to produce way, way less than 5ppm and the filter should be completely up to handling them. I know that GG will not only be cautious in adding very small additions of fish with a couple of weeks between addtions but also I fully expect him to be a great maintainer of his gravel-clean-water-changes on the weekends. So this seems a very safe case on which to pull the plug early.

You will have to watch it just as if it were a fish-in cycle, just to be on the safe side, GG. Another reason to watch it carefully is in case there is some serious flaw in the filter that we just haven't understood and that might be leading the fishless cycle to not end and would still allow too high a nitrite level. Rare but possible I guess.

By the way, I'd just like to also throw in my agreement with Caz, a number of posts back, that the rapid rise in nitrate(NO3) after a water change is indeed a very, very good sign that hints at the fishless cycle really being basically over. Any filter that is doing that is giving a good sign. Also, just like Si's and many other cases, the vast majority of ones that have become so long that we've aborted and switched to fish have behaved just as if they'd had a good qualification week. The few that have re-spiked after fish were added were usually shorter fishless cycles, in my memory.

One other benefit of switching to the goldfish (or any fish) from the ammonia after the bulk of the fishless cycling of the biofilter has already occurred is that I feel the fish and their waste do begin to help the tank have a more complex chemistry. The overall nitrogen cycle in the tank may become more smooth when there is more debris to help maintain a more regular heterotrophic population of bacteria alongside the autotrophs in the filter.

Good luck GG (if you haven't already done it before I write this, lol)

~~waterdrop~~
 
Agreed.

Just like WD suggested you would, keep up with the efficient gravel vac, after all goldfish are prolific poopers.

Just test daily or if you feel safer test twice a day, if you notice any Nitrite or Ammonia how ever small you should probably do a small water change rather than leaving it for the filter to pick up. However I think that will NOT happen.

I wish you the best of luck and you better show some pictures!
 
Thanks WD and Joshua

That's decided then. My fish will go in the tank in the next day or two.

Just to be 100% sure I'm doing everything properly, my plan is to do the following (so please correct me if I'm wrong):

1. Complete water change, making sure to increase the pH of the new water with bicarb until it matches the pH of the water in my small tank currently housing my two goldfish.
2. Adjust water temperature until it matches the temperature of the water in my small tank currently housing my two goldfish.
3. Add my two fish using the usual method when you buy new fish (put bag or bowl in tank and gradually add water from the new tank). After an hour or so, tip the fish into the tank.
4. Check water daily for nitrite and ammonia, do partial water changes if ammonia or nitrite are detected.
5. Assuming all goes well, do 25% weekly water changes.

One other question... the charcoal sponge has been in the tank since day one, do I leave it in there or dispose of it now? My new tank also came with a nitrate removal sponge which I know is useless (thanks WD). It's never been in the tank so should I throw it away or will it act as a normal sponge if I just put it in there to replace the charcoal sponge?

Regarding photographs, I know I've promised to post photos of the tank on a few occasions and I've never got round to it (sorry). You can be 100% sure that I'll take some decent photos as soon as I get my two fish in this week.
 
Oh no, I wouldn't make any changes to the media of the filter right now. You haven't passed qualification, so you know the colonies are weak and you don't want to risk throwing a bunch of them and their biofilms out with the charcoal sponge. Its not hurting a thing to leave that sponge in there quite a bit longer and eventually change it out in smaller slices, and yes, the green nitrate sponge should be fine to think of as just normal sponge.

Yes, your fish transfer process sounds fine. Except what's the deal about the bicarb? Are you using bicarb in the current goldfish tank? The types of KH/pH movement it can cause are usually a bit fast for fish, thus its recommendation as a buffer for bacterial growing soup, not usually for a regular running fish tank. (but there are exceptions..)

~~waterdrop~~
 
Hi WD,

OK, I've done it. The fish are in their new home. I took your advice and left the filter media well alone. At some point I will put in that nitrate removal sponge so it can act as a normal sponge.

The deal with the bicarb? Well, you may remember a looooong time ago we discussed the low pH of my tap water. My tap water has a pH of just 6.0 and after a lengthy discussion with you I decided to add crushed coral to the filter in my small tank. Over the last few months that has slowly raised the pH in the small tank to 7.2. So when I did a full water change in the new tank today I added bicarb to take the pH up to around 7.2 before I added the fish. That way I thought the transfer would be safer and more comfortable for the fish. I will be adding crushed coral to the filter in the new tank too. Eventually I will try and let the pH stabilise at around 8.0 which is near enough ideal for fancy goldfish.

Everything went very smoothly. I added the huge piece of driftwood I've had soaking for several months and the tank looks great and the fish look really happy. I'll just need to keep up my daily testing to keep an eye on the water chemistry for a while. I will keep my small tank ticking over so I can use it as a quarantine tank for the new fish we will be buying in a few weeks.

So, an absolutely HUGE thanks to a few special people on here: Waterdrop, JoshuaA, Oldman47 and a few others (you know who you are). This has been an exasperating first fishless cycle but the end result is worth it. As promised, here are a few photos to let you see what you've helped me to achieve. Thanks ever so much EVERYONE! :good:

4764053099_3008f8eed7.jpg


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tank looks great :good:

One thing I would say is that sodium bicarbonate can harm the fish, now I'm not to sure about this subject... but waterdrop always advised it for fishless situations. I did a bit of reading myself and I know that some fishkeepers do use sodium bicarbonate to raise KH for fish in situations too but I think they use it in very small amounts.

So hopefully WD or someone can verify this, I don't think its a major problem at the moment but if you continued to add it it could cause bigger problems. Although you may have to do a bigger waterchange..I'm not too sure. But then obviously the same problem of the low pH still stands. It might be that you've discussed this already, I just wanted to make sure

Shame you're not keeping south american cichlids or something that love low pH :) Once again, looks great and I'm glad to see you've got fish. Keep an eye on those readings. :)
 
Thanks PDSimon. You also helped me through this cycle and I am very grateful.

I didn't know bicarb could harm the fish, that's something I need to find out about. Hopefully Waterdrop will be along soon to advise me. Yes, given the choice I would have gone for fish that love low pH. Unfortunately the only reason I am keeping fish at all is because my kids got these two goldfish for Christmas and I needed to create a suitable home for them to prevent them from suffering or dying early. That's the reason I got the 240 litre tank.
 
You're welcome, glad to see you've given them a good home :)

yeah, the sodium from the bicarb is a metal which builds up and harms fish apparently
 

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