Grapefruit Seed Extract

[Ptarmigan]

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[Bignose]

http/www.pureliquidgold.com/dogskindisorders.htm#fish

heres an intersting link for it, it seems like its quite good for fish.

chish, this site is a perfect example of what I have been railing against. The website claims GSE claims to do a bunch of stuff, but where is the proof?!? The only proof I have seen in those few scientific papers, and like I said they have shown that is a preservative added to the extract that does anything... why not just go out and get the preservative then.

Not only where is the proof, but where are specifics? Just the fact they make you buy a chart should seem awfully suspicious. Ever notice how almost any other fish medicine you can get a complete list of the ingredients and instruction on the manufacturer's website?

Look, I am not against herbal remedies, and if someone would do the necessary work, again I will be the first one to line up behind the supporters.

But, look, doing the necessary science is not the skeptic's job, it is the supporters job. They have to bring the proof to us, it is not up to science to disprove your ideas, it is up to you to prove to science that your hypothesis is valid

Until then, all I'm asking you guys to do is think.


p.s. a good page on fishkeeping herbal remedies http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/herbal.shtml

Look this page about aloe vera: http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/wate...ditioners.shtml

In the 1980s, gel derived from the subtropical succulent Aloe vera experienced a faddish popularity phase where it started to appear in some of the unlikeliest consumer products. Aloe vera gel has a numbing effect on the nerve endings in human skin, so it's genuinely welcome in the kitchen to soothe minor burns. Its gel keeps damaged tissues from drying, and to that extent Aloe vera "promotes healing." It has never had any legitimate use in aquariums, where drying of tissues is scarcely an issue. None whatsoever. Pure marketing.

Natural does not equal healthy. Arsenic and lead and all sorts of stuff that will kill you are very natural, that is, they are found in nature. Doesn't mean that they are good for you.

 

[Shelly_Otterkin]

I need to say this. I am not running around saying put this stuff in your tank. I was looking for some one who might have used it and how did it work. I am still looking for ansewers. I belive in looking into things to check them out before I toss the idea as bunk. When some on slams a "stop this is stupid" sign in my face it gets my back up. I will keep looking into GSE and other ways to treat fish with out messing up your tank with a lot of crap. So many people over med there fish it is not funny.

 

[Bignose]

Shelly, I really hope I did not come across as telling you that you are stupid. That is not what I (nor I think anyone else) meant at all.

You say you are looking for answers, and I support that wholeheartedly. But, what is out there seems to be pretty poor (from a science point of view), and misleading, and unjustified claims by the manufacturers. My whole goal in the numerous previous posts is to try to give you and everybody a skpetical mind so that when you read a statement like on "pureliquidgold.com" you say to yourself "OK, I can belive this, but I would like to see proof" Please just don't take the word of someone who put together a website and is trying to sell you something. Most critically, you must learn to distinguish between anecdote and evidence. Be cricitcal about the source of your information.* This is my whole premise.

* BTW, this includes me, if you think I am full of it, feel free to ignore me, but I would hope before you made this decision that you would look at the other posts I have made and see what other infomration I have tried to share before.

 

[chishnfips]

well Bignose, I have been known to be quite gullible. lol.

From my point of view: when I read info on a website I do take it to be tried and tested and I dont presume that it is harmful... I dont know enough about certain subjects to be objective.

 

[annka5]

I totally agree tjhat lots of people do stick a hole load of meds and magic potions (e.g. general fish tonic and the like) in their tank for no good reason, and its a really bad plan.
However, my point would be that I cannot see any difference in adding a chemical extracted from something natural and a chemical extracted from a test tube; they're both chemicals, often neither is natural to the fish's original environment, there are loads of examples of both doing harm as well as good, etc etc, particularly if it's just on the off-chance that you need it.

Also, I don't see how you're ever going to get a 100% reliable dosage for a product which is unlikely to be standardised at all - given that what the active ingredient actually is isn't yet clear it would be near-impossible to standardise between manufacturers and possibly even between batches from the same manufacturer.
I would suggest that differnt growing conditions etc of grapefruit would impact the mount of the active inredient in th pips, too; also that different species of fish and differnt water conditions would need a differnet dosage, etc. There's seems to be so very little data that you'd just need to try to experiment for yourself IMO.