Going To Take The Plunge

[JaminRat]

Hi all,

I'm going to do it, I'm going to create my own nano sized slice of the ocean. I've read all the pinned topics and a few good books. Had a chat with a friend with a big reef tank (approx 6 feet) and chatted to my LFS and I have few questions.

The tank I'm going to use is an Ehiem setup see here the heater is marine safe but I'm not sure if the filter will be of any use. This tank is just under 15 usg.

I understand that with a larger marine tank nitrate is controlled with a dsb usually in the fuge but I'm not sure how this is controlled in a nano other than by water changes. I have seem fluidised sand bed filters in books but have not heard them mentioned on here so would appreciate a little info.

The majority of filtering will be done with LR (I think 8kg's should be enough) but is any further filtering necessary?

FInally, for now anyway, I was thinking of stocking with a pair of True Clowns (Amphiprion percula I think) which I think would be ok stocking wise but am getting some conflicting info. Some say than an anemone is not essential but others have told me that many get fungal infections without them. I am fairly sure that anemone would require MH lighting which is a bad idea in a nano due to the heat so I would not be able to keep one for them. Is any of this right or wrong.

Thanks for your patience.

Ben

 

[SkiFletch]

to the salty side of life

You are correct, filtration is achieved through the amount of LR you quoted which is operated by a powerhead or two. Aim for 300gph worth of flow (15gal x 20) and if you can, use either two 150 jet-type (like a maxijet) or a single 300gph diffuse flow type (like a seio). Waterchanges and controlled feedings keep nitrates low. A healthy cleanup crew and perhaps the longterm growth of coraline algae on your LR will help this as well.

2 clowns would be fine for stocking. Nems do not mix well with nano tanks for the reason you mentioned and many others. Clownfish do just fine without a nem. Mine have never had one and are perfectly healthy

 

[JaminRat]

Thanks for answering that Ski.

I have another question though. I have access to unlimited amounts of DI and RO water through work but DI is much easier to obtain as this is stored on site whereas RO is made pretty much as we need it with only a small reserve. So what is best, RO or DI water?

If it makes a difference I am located in Plymouth UK and all water comes from the main supply for the area.

Thanks

Ben

 

[SkiFletch]

Well, if its true triple-distilled DI water then yes, it would be more than suitable. I used to take water home from work too till I found a good deal on an RO unit. The way you know if the water is suitable is with a TDS (total dissolved solutes) meter. They're really cheap off ebay (around 10-15quid) and will tell you how much solutes are present. If your "DI" water is down to 10ppm or less than it is suitable. If its over that, then I'd use the RO instead.

 

[JaminRat]

To be honest thats what I was thinking. All our systems are monitotred by resistivety and conductivety (spelling) is it possible to check from this whether they are suitable.

 

[SkiFletch]

Thats essentially what a TDS meter does. Just measures the conductivity of the water and converts it into a reading in ppm (more solutes, more conductive, and vice versa). If you can find out how conductivity or resistivity relates to ppm (the internal calcs of the TDS meter) then you'd be all set. Alas, I dont know how. It might be appropriate to find out what the conductivity/resistivity of pure H2O is and go from there.

One other basic question, how are the RO membranes maintained and does the conductivity or resistivity of the water from the RO unit vary at all with that of the DI unit? Cause if the RO system is properly maintained and the two sources have equal conductivity/resistivity you can assume the DI unit is worthy of aquarium use

 

[JaminRat]

TBH the system confuses me a little as there are essentially 4 systems in place pure RO pure DI and reclaim DI and reclaim RO. It is a Purite system if anyone has heard of them. I think only the DI is monitored as this is the main system need to speak to maintenance to get more detail.

 

[JaminRat]

Ok did a quick search and found this may worry a few people out there as in short it says that a TDS meter does not measure TDS at all and simply measures conductivity.

Another good page here and yes I no it is for hydroponics but they are very similar sciences. This gives the conversion factors so I should be able to tell have good our DI and RO water really is.

Or even easier an online convertor here

 

[SkiFletch]

Interesting reads, especially that first one. However, even if a TDS meter only measures ionic solutes (which I agree with), it is still an effective standard by which to judge the functionality of an RO or DI source of water. The reason being that if your RO or DI source is functioning less than optimally, small single atom ions will be the first atoms/molecules to defeat the filtration system. MUCH larger organic compounds (nitrates/phosphates) and silicate based compounds will be the last to pass through the filtration system. Therefore, in monitoring an RO membrane, if one sees the TDS of an RO discharge rise (indicating small ions are breaching the membrane), one can easily assume that the membrane is beginning to become overwhelmed and in need of flushing. Not a complete perfect exact science, but it does tell you when things need flushing/replacing

 

[JaminRat]

Certainly interesting reading. Thanks for all your helpful and prompt relies. Now I know where I am with water could I ask a couple of other questions (I'll check the readings and if neither are no good my LFS stocks RO and have said they will always have enough stock for a 100% change should I need it without prior notice).

I have been looking at powerheads am torn between either 2 of this style or 1 of the Seio m620 units. TBH I think the Seio looks to be the better but have 2 concerns this first is that this may be overkill at over x40 times turnover ph and secondly that I'm sure i've read that flow should not all come from one direction. I might be completely wrong on this though.

Thanks again

Ben

 

[SkiFletch]

Run far away from those "wave action" pumps of any brand. I've yet to meet one that would last in a harsh saltwater environment longterm. Those types of pumps are notorious for breaking. A Seio 620 might be a little overkill (depending on what you keep), but what you might want to consider is a couple standard maxijet mp600s or perhaps minijet 606's. If you want to keep LPS/SPS then the seio would be great. If you want to keep Softies/LPS, go with the maxi's. You are correct that dual pumps facing each other or the glass helps minimize dead spots and increase turbulence. However those Seios (and Tunzes although they dont make smaller models if memory serves) use a very wide diffuse flowrate that if pointed at the glass would probably provide enough waterflow and lack of dead spots. Unfortunately every tank is individual so its hard to say what would be 100% right for you

 

[JaminRat]

I thought that may be your response as far as flow goes. Can I ask a real noobie question SPS, LPS?

 

[SkiFletch]

hehe, I still remember when I had to ask that same question

SPS (small polyped stony) are stony skeleton encrusting corals. Most commonly acropora, pocillipora, stylophora, and montipora genus.

LPS (large polyped stony) are stony skeleton fleshy corals. Such common names as brain, torch, frogspwan, galaxea, hammer, bubble, elegance, candy cane, acan, blasto, echino, and plenty more are LPS. Generally their fleshy bodies far out-size their stony skeleton.

SPS (with a few exceptions) are very difficult to keep and require excpetional water quality, flowrate, and lighting. Usually high flow (>30x turnover), high lighting (MH or lots of T5s), and good skimming are required. LPS are mid-range corals in general although some (elegance, blasto, echino, and acan especially) are much more difficult to keep with requriements simliar to SPS. They can mostly tolerate water conditions that are less than perfect and do just fine under T5 or PC lighting. With large quantities of any stony-type coral in your system, dosing may eventually become required to bring back up calc/alk/mg that the corals use to build their skeletons. thats a somewhat more advanced topic though.

Softies like mushrooms, zooanthids, leathers, xenia, and nepthia to name a few are very easy to keep. you can generally get away with moderate flow and sometimes even T8 lighting. Many softies are tolerant of high-nutrient water and a few even prefer it. They are also much more tolerant of high temps than LPS or SPS

 

[JaminRat]

Thank you for that excellent answer. I have previously avoided the topic of corals as I was planning on setting the tank up as a FOWLR intially then upgrading the lighting at a later date and starting with a few beginner corals and progressing from there. Just proves how important research is as I had no idea it would affect the choice of powerhead to that deggree. I will have to have a good think about that topic as the one thing I do want to ensure is that I leave as many options open as possible for the future.

Would SPS and more difficult LPS require MH lighting as I would only be looking to upgrade to T5's due to the number of problems with heat I would be likely to expierence. The tank is quite shallow ( dimensions are 60x30x30cm's 24x12x12"'s) so I'm not really sure whether MH would give much of an advantage at that sort of depth.

 

[SkiFletch]

Because you're using a nano tank, I'd reccomend a bank of ~24" T5 lights each with individual reflectors. That would clearly give you enough lighting punch to deal with any type of corals. Perhaps a bank of 4 bulbs if you want to do SPS and 2 bulbs if you want LPS/softies. As for the flowrate, even most softies can handle higher flowrate, they usually just open up a bit less. I'd aim for 30x turnover in powerheads to give you the most options in the future.

Research is very important in the saltwater world mostly because of the needs of the aniumals you choose. The options are so varied and the choices so vast that fialure to do adequate research is what kills the chances of most hobbiests. Keep asking questions and in time you'll learn to answer the valuable lessons you've gleaned yourself.

I for one cant wait to see your tank, so make sure you take lots of pics