Giant Gourami

[Notsosimplefate]

So I have a 35-40 gallon tank and three gouramis and a bunch of other community fish. My Giant gourami I got about two weeks ago and she has been growing, but not so much long ways, she has been getting very wide and round, almost like she is bloated. And her scales were sticking out. Oh, and she has white blotches on her coloring.

She has been fine, but yesterday it seemed as though somone had taked a bite at her, but she was still eating and everything was fine, but this morning when I went to feed, she wasnt the first fish at the top like usual, and I found her sitting in one of the plants, and it seems as though she is gasping. When I shooed her out of the plant to make sure she was alive(I couldnt see her clearly) she went to the bottom and was laying on her side.

So I put her in a little holder that floats at the top so no one can pick on her.


What is wrong with her, and what should I do??

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Hi and welcome to the forum .

Sounds like your giant gourami has Dropsy if she is bloated looking with her scales sticking out.

"Dropsy, is actually a "symptom" and not a disease in itself. The standing scales and blown up appearance are the result of swelling within the tissues and organs of the fish due to a build up of fluids in the kidneys and an inability to excrete this fluid in a normal manner. In other words, advanced kidney dysfunction.

The problem with treating this disease is that there are a number of "potential" causes: bacterial infection, parasites, cancerous tumors, virus', internal fungal infections or sudden temperature drop of more than 3 degrees";


http/badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html




Have you tested your water for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and ph at all (if so, what are the results from the tests)? How many and what types of fish do you have in the tank and how long has it been set up for? What is your average tank cleaning regime like and how do you go about it?

 

[Notsosimplefate]

The giant gourami just died. I was really hoping she would pull through until I figured out how to help her.


I havent tested it for a few weeks, because it usually stays where it should be, but I usually test whenever I clean the tank. I have about 20 fish. Which include: 1 pearl gourami, 1 blue gourami, 1 Paradise fish, 2 iridescent sharks, 1 gobi, 1 tiger barb, 1 black neon, 1(it looks like a neon but it has an orange stripe, cant remember what it is called), 1 dojo loach, 2 corys, 1 butterfly fish, three various tetras, 2 purple passion danios, and three fish(again I cant remember what they are called, two are a neon green color while the othr is just a plain greyish color and they both stay at the top of the tank and have a flat head.).

I have had that tank set up for almost 2 years.

I usually remove most of the fish and use a vacuum to clean out the rocks, and I take out the plants and other structures and clean them thoroughly, and then clean out the filtration system and other things such as the tubing for the air.

 

[charlie4486]

I usually remove most of the fish and use a vacuum to clean out the rocks, and I take out the plants and other structures and clean them thoroughly, and then clean out the filtration system and other things such as the tubing for the air.

I hope you don't do all that at the same time. especially water changes and filter cleanings. filters and the water have important bacteria in them and if you change clean them both it could cause an imbalance between bad bacteria and the bacteria that fights it. I'm not an expert or anything but just from doing research my self i have read that it is not good or necessary to take the fish out to clean your tank. it puts a lot of stress on them. i'm sorry for your loss i too just lost a gourami last week.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

The giant gourami just died. I was really hoping she would pull through until I figured out how to help her.


I havent tested it for a few weeks, because it usually stays where it should be, but I usually test whenever I clean the tank. I have about 20 fish. Which include: 1 pearl gourami, 1 blue gourami, 1 Paradise fish, 2 iridescent sharks, 1 gobi, 1 tiger barb, 1 black neon, 1(it looks like a neon but it has an orange stripe, cant remember what it is called), 1 dojo loach, 2 corys, 1 butterfly fish, three various tetras, 2 purple passion danios, and three fish(again I cant remember what they are called, two are a neon green color while the othr is just a plain greyish color and they both stay at the top of the tank and have a flat head.).

I have had that tank set up for almost 2 years.

I usually remove most of the fish and use a vacuum to clean out the rocks, and I take out the plants and other structures and clean them thoroughly, and then clean out the filtration system and other things such as the tubing for the air.

Hmm....You have a real mix of fish in the tank, some problems will arise from keeping certain fish of yours with others;

a. Tiger barbs, danio's and tetras are shoaling fish, in the wild they use shoaling as a survival tactic as a defense against predators. This instinct to be in large groups is so strong in these fish, that if you keep them in an aquarium (even if there are no obvious dangers), the fish will feel stressed if they don't have enough of their own kind to shoal in when they want to.
Generally speaking, 5-10 fish (depending on the size of the tank and shoaling fish in question) is a good number to keep each type/species of shoaling fish in.
So for the long term well being of the shoaling fish in question, its important to keep them in large groups of their own kind, as stressed fish are a lot more prone to getting ill etc.

b. Dojo loaches are coldwater to sub-tropical loaches, when kept in a tropical temp tank though if there isn't a great deal of strong filtration and oxygen in the water, they will not live out their maximum life expectancy in the long term as been kept in the wrong temps in the wrong sort of habitat will put a strain on their health in the long term. They are very robust/hardy loaches, but definately tend to thrive better when kept in cooler tanks with are strongly filtered and have a deep soft sand substrate etc ;

http/www.loaches.com/species-index/weath...rm=dojo%20loach

c. Irredescent sharks grow huge, and as they grow they will eat any other fish that fits into their mouths- i am surpised you have not already lost fish to these sharks already; these sharks can grow to over 4ft long, see the pics and info on this site;

http/www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/speci...?species_id=172


d. when you say "butterfly fish", are you talking about/referring to the African butterfly fish;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=34968

?


e. The corys would benefet a lot more from being in a larger group, they are very sociable and friendly fish and the larger the group they are in of their own kinda the better they thrive .





With your water quality testing, what do you usually test the water for and what sort of results do you usually get?

I usually remove most of the fish and use a vacuum to clean out the rocks, and I take out the plants and other structures and clean them thoroughly, and then clean out the filtration system and other things such as the tubing for the air.

When you clean out the tank how much old water do you remove from the tank on average (i.e. take 10, 20, 40, 60, 100% of the water out etc)? Do you use dechlorinator/water conditioner which removes chlorine and stuff from the tap water when you do water changes and clean out the filter? How often do you give the tank a clean like this?

What sort of filtration do you have for the tank (i.e. undergravel filter, internal sponge filter, external filter etc)?




Most fish diseases or parasites or health problems like dropsy usually come about from some sort of stress the fish in experiencing in the tank, when a fish dies of something like dropsy it is important to thoroughly review and check exactly how you are looking after the fish, as the root cause of such problems like dropsy usually come about with some mistake over the care of the fish or tank the fishkeeper has made etc .

 

[Notsosimplefate]

Okay, all of my tetra's stick together for the most part. Usually when I buy them I buy no less than three. But I have gotten these a long time ago, almost a year ago when I had a little 20 gallon. But then I decided my turtle needed the extra space more than me needing two tanks, so I combined the two into the bigger tank and a couple died thanks to an old tiger barb I used to have(very agressive and big) I used to have two but the other tiger barb died of unknown reasons. So when I watch my tank, all four of the tetras, the danios, plus a rasbora(forgot about that one) stick together. The tiger barb goes back and forth between the sharks and the gouramis.

My tank is one of those hexagonal tanks, and is reletively tall. So the water at the bottom tends to be a bit cooler than the water at the top. When I got my dojo, he looked close to dying. But when they tried to net him, he would swim away. So I figured it was the temperature. But I decided to bring him home anyway, since I allready had one dojo, I had been dying to get another. When I brought him home I put him in a floating breeding trap to keep him away from everyone else, and then once he perked up I put him in the tank, and I have had him ever since(a little over a year) and he seems happy.

My iridescent sharks are my favorite of the tank. About three years ago when I got my first tank(a little ten gallon) all my fish would die soon after I bought them, which was probably because of my lack of experience, and one of my sharks was the first fish to survive, and after that most of the fish I got thrived, and then I got my new tank, about two and a half years ago. And she is about 5 inches but hasnt got much bigger. And I have yet to lose a fish to her. She is far from agressive. Back when I had my ten gallon, I figued I must be doing something right, because she layed eggs, and I had heard that they dont in captivity. When I got the tank I have now, I got another so she would have a buddy, and they swim around together. But the one I got is a bit smaller and doesnt have eyes. When I got him he did, but one day I noticed they were gone! I have no idea what caused this, but he gets along fine and eats and everything.

Yes the African butterfly. I used to have two, but one died, probably because the other used to pick on him.

I used to have 6 corey in that tank, but then I had various issues with my tank. (such as once when the tank had gotten a bit cold, I turned up the heater, and I usually check it before I go to bed to make sure I didnt turn it up to much and I had fallen asleep before Igot to check it and in the morning it was WAY too hot and a few of them had died. Luckily though I had only lost 3 fish all together.)

I usually test my water for ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, and Ph.

I usually take out about a quarter of the water, sometime less. So about 20- 30% I guess.

And yes I always use a declorinator.

I usually clean the tank this thoroughly about once a month or so. And I have an external filter.

I hope you don't do all that at the same time. especially water changes and filter cleanings. filters and the water have important bacteria in them and if you change clean them both it could cause an imbalance between bad bacteria and the bacteria that fights it. I'm not an expert or anything but just from doing research my self i have read that it is not good or necessary to take the fish out to clean your tank. it puts a lot of stress on them. i'm sorry for your loss i too just lost a gourami last week.

I usually do it all at the same time, I never knew it was bad. Everything I know, I pretty much learned from a friend, even though my tank does better than hers usually.

The only reason I take out the fish, is because the vaccum I have is very large, and I would rather stress them out by taking them out instead of accidentally sucking one up. My tank is very tall but not wide, so there isnt a lot of space for me to get my vaccum in there without disturbing everyone. And the one time I did try it, they pay no head to me and just keep swimming in the way of the vaccuum.

Oh, and I am sorry about your gourami. I love my gouramis, I plan on getting biig tank for mostly gouramis one day.

Here are some pictures of the gang.

 

[Notsosimplefate]

Okay, I have another question.

Yesterday night when I went to the pet store just to browse, I saw that they had two giant gouramis left.

And since mine had died I figured I would get another, because I never see giant gouramis, and I would love to have one well into its "big" days.(Once it gets bigger I will deffinately be getting a bigger tank.)

This time it was a male.


He is very brightly colored, and lovely to watch, just because of this. He is pictured, kinda, in the picture of the cave, he is just sitting in it.

Usually when I put a new fish in, it hides for a few days, which is understandable, and then starts to find its own place in the tank.

Well my pearl gourami, which I believe is a female, started picking on him.

And my big male gourami started to, well it seemed like to me, protect him. The pearl would go to chase my giant, and then the blue would chase her away(not biting, just chasing) and then swim away. And he would swim over to the giant and look at him and swim off.

He would kinda peck at him as though telling him, hey Im the boss, or this is my spot. But wouldnt terrorize him about it.

But the pearl just wont leave him alone.


What should I do so he doesnt get killed.


What sort of things make the gouramis care less about each other.

I am going to start feeding less, because I read that helps, but what else.

If I need to I will be stopping by the petstore to get more plants and more things to make hiding places.

I have the plants set up in my tank so that they can swim among them or behind them, and will be seperated from the rest of the fish, and plus I have a large castle/cave thing in the back middle and not many of them use it, but he sometimes uses it, but right now he just hides at the base of the plants.


For the night I put him in the breeding trap, and surrounded it by plants and put one up above a part of it so he doesnt feel out in the open, but is close to the surface for oxygen and this way he doesnt get picked on when I cant watch, to rescue him.

He allready has a peck on his back and bits of tail missing.

I figured I would give him a day or so away from the rest to help him recover.

Is there anything else I can do, I reaally want to keep all of my fish happy and healthy.

I figured maybe the male would pick on him, but he is pretty friendly and doesnt usually care, but why would the female do the picking?

 

[Notsosimplefate]

Okay, update.

Last night he got out of the trap somehow.

And when I checked it this morning the paradise fish was in it acting confused. lol.

But my giant has a white spot on his head. I cant get a good look at it to know what it is. I put the pearl in the trap because she wont leave him alone.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Really the irredescent sharks are not suited to your tank, i know you love them, but in 3years time these sharks should be a heck of a lot larger than 5inches long, i would put the sharks small size down to lack of food and/or space- really your sharks should be a couple of foot long by now, not 5inches long. Something has gone very wrong to cause this severe stunted growth, it isn't right.
Also it is imposible that your irredescent sharks layed eggs in the past, because they are simply not large enough and old/mature enough to do this- Irredescent sharks sexually mature at about 4-5 years old. The eggs you found in your tank must of come from other type of fish like corys or critters like snails etc.


You still haven't told me the sort of results you get when you test your water quality? You really shouldn't buy new fish considering that you just recently lost one and haven't even tested your water quality or found a likely cause of the fishes kidney failure/dropsy.

Also it really isn't adviseable to buy a fish knowing that it will definately outgrow your tank, are you aware that giant gourami's can grow to over 2ft long? The problem with buying tankbusting fish before you actually have the huge aquarium needed for them, is that life is never straight forward and things get in the way and delay you getting the size tank your fish need- you may even find out you can't have/afford the tank your fish need in the future, and have to go through the heart breaking process of rehoming the fish in question etc.


The only way to save your gourami is change the decor in the tank and add a lot of tall planting and hope the gourami's will be ok with each other after a change of scenery and more hiding places added, but this isn't assured.
If your gourami has parts of his tail missing, he'll need more than a day away from the other bullying gourami's to recover, he should only be introduced to the tank after he is in top condition again, as stressed and weak arrivals to a fish tank make easy targets for more established and healthy/strong fish etc.

 

[Notsosimplefate]

Firstly, im almost positive that it was the shark, because we looked into it all and just the way the shark had been acting.

Second, I cannot test my water right now because my kit has been misplaced because my mom moves my stuff and doesnt tell me. But usually it is where it is supposed to.

Thirdly, I am presuming that the giant I had before had something wrong with it when I bought it because it never looked nearly as healthy as the one I have now.

The giant will outgrow my tank, I know this. I looked up everything I needed to know about them before buying them. When he gets too large for that tank, if I dont have a tank by them I know very well that my parents will assist me in getting the larger tank. But of the things I need to purchase it is second on my list. And I know things happen, but if that fish needs a bigger tank. I assure you, it WILL get one.

My iridescent sharks are completely happy in my tank, there has been quality and ample amount of food given to them on a daily basis. It grows steadily larger but does so slowly. And I have not had it for three years, about two.

As I said in my update, the gourami got out of the breeding trap, and so I put the pearl in since it doesnt seem to mind being in there.

It has begun to swim around and is starting to mind my blue gouramis space. I will be arranging the tank decor and putting more plants in tomorrow, I am unable to tonight. But I feel everything will work out.

 

[Butch]

Oh great we got a rookie here......something's wrong with some fish you have. The grey one with bent spine looks like gambusia or golden wonder killifish. And it sounds like you collect some deformed fishes? Just don't get giant gourami or sharks anymore. All of your fish looks like very pale. Plus there are no f***ing way that your sharks can laying eggs since 5inch sharks are NOT SEXUALLY MATURED, so the eggs can't be come from shark, just research them VERY WELL! The eggs might come from golden killifish since they are very easy fish to breeding. Please don't argue with pro fishkeepers its like we argued with a stump.....so get it over!

Test your water.
Give sharks and giant gourami back to store or get them another BIGGER tank, you are messing the sharks's health, they are already stunted. I'm sorry but looks like all of your fish are not happy they looks like they have lots of rainy days.

 

[Notsosimplefate]

Okay. I joined this site to LEARN MORE. Not get called a freaking rookie.


I noticed they were a bit pale YESTERDAY. But they werent the day before.

The fish with the bent spine is pretty old. And it got that way slowly.

I DID NOT HAVE THE "Killifish" WHEN THE EGGS WERE LAYED.


If your read you would know that. I only had a couple of fish. I didnt tell you what kind because I felt it was impertinant. When the eggs were layed I only had LIVEBEARERS. The shark and a pleco were the only exception.

If you had seen what I had, you would know differently and wouldnt be calling ME ignorant.

I will not be giving back my sharks. They are fine until the time comes for the bigger tank. They have an ample amount of room in the one they are in.


And finally.

If I am a stump, at least I have decent grammar. And people understand fully what I am saying.

This is why I have avoided forums like this.

Because people like you who think you are pro's, shove it in people's faces who are wanting to learn.

 

[I Love my fishies]

Hi Notsosimplefate,

I can't help you with your giant gourami as I have not had the pleasure of keeping them

yet I did notice that you have just one Tiger Barb in there and I know he would not be happy at all on his own he may be alive and well but he would not be very happy all on his own without any other Barbs so I urge you please do a little reading up on Tiger Barbs (the are a shoaling fish)

now this is being said to help you and is not at all an atempt to shove it in your face

If you need any help finding info on Tiger Barbs just let me know and I will post you some links

Goodluck

 

[Notsosimplefate]

Thank you for some information without trying to bash my head in.


I have been thinking of getting one or two tiger barbs soon.

I used to have more, but as I had still been learning when I got them, they hadn't lasted long. But I was worried that if I got more they would stress him out since he is used to being alone. Would he be more likely to be aggressive towards them? Or should they be fine?


Yet again, thanks for the kind response.

 

[I Love my fishies]

If you get 3 it is likely that two will gang up on the other one and that can get nasty............. 6 or more seems to be the magic number however you will have to check you wont be overstocking

I have 6 and the are very happy little guys but when I only had 3 they were little terror's (I learn't the hard way that Barbs need to be in goups of 6 or more )

So if you want to give your Barb the happiest environment I would suggest getting him 5 more friends however like I noted befor just check you wont be over stocking