Gas Bubble Disease...can Anyone Help Me?

[Elle3]

I just posted below and I found that my pleco. does have gas bubble disease. I did research and found many pictures, as to what he has actually developed. Can anyone help me, with this...???

I'm going out to purchase two new air pumps, as mine are old...about 10 years or more.... Is there anything else I can do, that someone knows of...???

Thank you, soo..much in advance...

 

[Ch4rlie]

Not sure what gas bubble disease is tbh, unless its something along the lines of anaerobic gas in sand / substrate ?
 
​Can you post pics of your tank and the pleco with this.
 
Will also need more information really.
 
What kind of pleco do you have?
Tank Size?
water stats? ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph
Is it a cycled tank?
Got any pictures of you set up and close up pics of your pleco?
 
Answering these may help us get a clearer picture of whats happening and hopefully give you advice whats best to do next. 

 

[Elle3]

Hi Ch4lrlie,  Thank you for taking the time to help me.  The best picture I have is for my Avatar--you can see the bubble on his nose...that was taken a few weeks ago, then it went away.  It just came back, last week, however, it then went away and 2 more developed.  Now today they are gone and his nose looks like a bad brush burn.  However, when he was on the side of the tank...I noticed one of these bubbles on his gills and very small ones forming on the underside of his tail.
 
I hope you can get to this site...this is exactly what he has and what it looks like, however he doesn't have this many.  Only the ones he had on his nose, and he has a small on on his gill and about 3 or 4 very small ones developing on his under tail.  Here is the site, with the pictures of what I'm trying to explain:
 
http/www.fishlore.com/fishforum/freshwater-fish-disease/148978-any-idea-what-gas-bubble-disease.html
 
It is exactly this, the bubbles are clear and just at the base, I would say blood lays and at the bottom of the bubble.
 
He is a common pleco
 
20 gallon tank (he is the only fish in the tank and has been for over 10 years)
 
Water Stats:
 
Ammo  .25   (If I had to make a judgement call, I would say a bit less)
 
Nitrate  0
 
Nitrate  5.0
 
PH is 7.4
 
Temp 72* F - 74* F
 
I'm still doing a TC tetracycline treatment.  So the water has been changed (25% or a bit more) 4 times within the past week.  I just did a 25% or a bit more, a few hours ago. 
 
I also, purchased a new air pump (much stronger than what I was using), along with an air bar.  The air pump has two outlets, so I'm now running the air bar and also a small air stone.
 
I'm not sure what else I can do???  All the research I've done, says to increase the air...that is why I got the stronger air pump.  The water I can honestly say, is moving around much better than it was before--with my other air pump.
 
I hope you can see those pictures on that site I sent you, so you can see exactly what he has going on...
 
Thank you, soo..much for all your help.  He's a lovely fish, with a wonderful personality.  He's a little over 13 years old now and is 13 1/2 inches.
 
I look forward to hearing back from you, with ANY help you can offer me....

 

[Ch4rlie]

This has been quite interesting research for me about Gas Bubble Disease (GBD), not something am familiar about really.
 
The best answer i have found is from this - 
 
 
Gas Bubble Disease (Tropical Fishlopaedia - Bailey & Burgess)
 
Gas bubble disease results from gas (usually nitrogen) supersaturation of the aquarium water and is analogous to the bends in human divers.
 
Signs: Lethargy, usually with no other signs of disease; microscopical examination of the gills may reveal small bubbles on the gill filaments. If there are gas bubbles on the glass and other surfaces in the aquarium and the fish appear unwell, then suspect gas bubble disease. In acute cases the fish may have bubbles adhering to their external surfaces. Death may ensue, and sub-lethal exposure can result in brain damage. In the case of breeding and rearing aquaria, affected eggs and fry may become buoyant, and fry yolk-sacs visibly distended with gas.
 
Cause: Gas (chiefly nitrogen) supersaturation of the water, usually occurring when cold gas-rich, water is heated quickly - as the temperature rises, its capacity for carrying gases decreases, leading to supersaturation and the formation of bubbles (the same phenomenon can be seen in saucepans of cold water put on to heat).
 
Gas supersaturation commonly occurs where freshly-drawn (and hence likely to be gas-rich) cold water has been used to fill a newly set up aquarium and rapidly heated to operating temperature; or if cold, or rapidly warmed, water is used to refill after a large partial change. Fish exposed to such conditions breathe in the excess concentrations of gas which may subsequently come out of solution in the blood and cause gas embolism (the obstruction of blood vessels by gas bubbles).
 
It is possible, but unlikely, that the use of high-turnover powerheads, with venturis, in too small an aquarium might also cause gas supersaturation. Sensible use of appropriate equipment will avoid any chance of this.
 
Prevention: Freshly-drawn cold water should be warmed and aerated (to drive off excess gases) before being used for water changes. Fish should not be placed in a newly set up aquarium until it is biologically mature, buy which time excess gases will have dissipated naturally.
 
Treatment: Move the fish to another, problem-free aquarium; otherwise drive off the excess gas by aerating vigorously or otherwise agitating the water.
 
Comment: Specialised (and expensive) equipment is needed to measure nitrogen levels in water, but the finger test can be used to test for gas supersaturation: if numerous bubbles form on a dry finger immersed in the aquarium for about a minute, there may be a supersaturation problem. This test can also be used for checking recently-drawn water before it is added to the aquarium.
 
 
This was taken from another forum and seems to concur with other researches I have quickly found, basically it says that gas bubble disease is formed by supersaturation of oxygen levels in tank water. 
 
Supersaturation basically happens when cool water, which hold more oxygen, is quickly heated/warmed up , does not give the chance for the water to de-gassed making it very difficult to release excess oxygen into the air. 
 
For example, put about 1 litre of cold tap water into a 2 litre plastic bottle and put into the fridge for a while. When the water is nice and cold, shake the bottle really well, this aerates the water, then place the bottle in a warm room. When the bottle warms up quickly you can see tiny bubbles on the side inside of the bottle. Usually the bubbles will naturally dissolve into the atmosphere. If bottle not opened, means the water not being de-gassed therefore the water is saturated with oxygen.
 
If supersaturated water is not de-gassed before fish is in the tank, the fish will absorb this excess gas and their bodies are not able to process this amount of oxygen, then the excess gas will come out as small bubbles under the skin in the fish.
 
The above is very basic level of explaining to give you an idea of what supersaturated water is, hopefully someone with more knowledge can help out with a better explanation than i can just now.
 
Basically -
 
The old air pump or valve system you had may have leaked, that can suck in air under pressure and put in more oxygen into your tank water.
 
Sudden temperature gradients (as explained above) 
 
Heavy algae blooms has been reported to be a factor in this as well as they produce more oxygen ingot the tank water than it can diffuse.
 
Treatment - 
 
Any leaks or problems with the system should be dealt with promptly, which you have done by buying a new air pump and airline etc.
 
Increase aeration/ surface water agitation to help with getting rid of gases into the surface.
 
Prognosis on your fish, well there are various things that may happen, most common outcomes are loss of an eye, bacterial infections from the bubbles under skin or brain damage. 
 
Hope that helps a bit, as already said earlier, I don't actually know very much about this but its learning for everybody and hopefully someone can elaborate more on what I have already mentioned.

 

[star4]

I cant add much more than Charlie to be honest, there is another article here..
 
http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=5238
 
The only thing I can say to help is be very careful on doing water changes matching the temperature, if you fill by hose make sure the hose is out of the water at all times, I did read this recently somewhere about if the hose is in the water the gases can mix and stay in the water where if it is above the water line it forms bubbles which rise to the surface and disperse, but I cannot find it . 

 

[Elle3]

Hi Charlie & Star... "Thank you, both soo..much for all your help, in this matter.  I'm beginning to understand it, a lot better. 
 
Okay, I just did the finger test and there are air bubbles forming on it, as soon as I put my finger in his tank   However, I did just change another thing in his tank--I always had the water, more or less cascading into the tank (at the water level, to the point you couldn't hear the water entering--I hope you both understand what I'm trying to explain???).  I just took out about 4 to 5 cups of water, so that the water is now "falling" into his tank, I can hear it hitting.  Do you think, this could have caused the problem as well, as the old air pump???
 
Also, I'm wondering IF the cucumber, zucchini, carrot, etc. (only one of these nightly), could be the culprit, as one or the other is in his tank for almost 12 hours--could this be causing excess algae???  Since I have been doing the 25 % or a bit more water changes since, last week (every 2 days), because of the antibiotic I'm treating him with... I have noticed that when I siphon his gravel, it's pulling up very cloudy debris, from the gravel, however only along the edges.  Do you think this is excess algae?  Are these things, in his tank too long???  If so, how long should they be kept in for or are allowed to be kept in for..???
 
I'm hoping you both know what I'm trying to explain...I'm trying my best, so you both can help me.
 
Also, when I do his water changes, I am very careful with the temp. and his PH level.  Also, I fill it with a cup, one by one and I pour the water in, from about 2 inches away from the surface of the tank water.  Is this correct...am I doing that okay???
 
He's gone through soo..much and I just feel horrible with what's going on...
 
Thank you both, once again... for all your help and also, for helping me to understand what exactly is going on.....

 

[star4]

Was the water from the outlet running down into the tank or was it running across the surface of the water? Running across the surface is better as it circulates the water better than just running straight down. As for the cloudy debris, what sort of colour is it? if its a mucky brown that would be normal where faeces has broken up in the gravel. You maybe over doing the veg with something every night, you need to do veg a couple of times or so a week with some pleco wafers, and mine enjoy catfish pellets. If he is getting too much veg his faeces would be very watery making it go into the gravel quickly.

 

[Elle3]

Hi Star, The water was running across the surface.  Where the water comes out of the filter and back into the tank--I had that water running into the tank at the water levels surface (it was even with the water level).  I now have it that the water coming out of the filter.  The water now going into the tank (from the filter) is about 1/2 and inch away from the water suface, sooo..it is more "falling" into the tank, instead of simply cascading into and what I would say...across the surface.
 
Do you think I should add more water then and keep the water from the filter flowing on the surface level--the way I had it... rr should I wait a few days, being he is going through soo..much right now???  I really don't want to stress him anymore than is neccessary.
 
The debris is more of cloudy white--does that make sense???  Also, he still won't touch the algae wafers and I've tried blood worms, he won't touch them, also shrimp pelets and shrimp wafers, he won't touch them either--I can't find catfish pellets around here...I've been to every store. The only luck I'm having, is with the cucumber, zucchini and carrots....  Is it okay, if I don't put one of these in his tank nightly...maybe every other day??? 
 
Thank you, once again...for all your help and being here for me...

 

[star4]

Right with you now, that should be ok, any gas in the filter should be dispersed by forming bubbles that rise to the surface instead of being trapped in the water. Leave it like that and do a finger test again after 24 hours see if there is any reduction in the amount of bubbles you get.
 
Cloudy white debris?? I am honestly not to sure on that, unless its left over cucumber etc, or another possibility is you have an explosion of detritus worms. Next time you gravel vac, if you empty into a bucket get a class and scoop some of the water your have vacced out and hold it up and have a look, you would see white hair like worms wiggling about in the water. They are harmless and feed on uneaten food in the tank, which if Mr Plec is not eating well they may have built up numbers.
 
Other than that I will have to have a think and a google. Sorry not much help.

 

[Elle3]

Thank you Star.... No you are helping, believe me. Okay, I'll keep the filter running into the tank, the way I have it set now and do a finger test tomorrow. 
 
Also, Star...should I give him a cucumber or etc. tonight???  I don't know what to do now, if I should feed him these things daily--as I said he won't touch anything else.  Should I feed him every other day??? 
 
Ohh..I wanted to ask you too--When I do the water changes, should I vac. the bottom each and everytime???  I've been doing that and I was wondering--is that healthy or not???  I will also, look into a glass when I do the water change...hopefully, they aren't worms...my poor little guy, has enough problems...
 
He still has that one "Gas Bubble" on his gill... he hasn't been on the side of tank, so I can't tell if the others on his under tail have gone away or gotten larger.   However, he is doing okay, today...he seems to LOVE his new "air bar"...he keeps his tail over the bubbles--a massage of sorts
 
Thank you, for everything and all your help, research, etc... it's all appreciated, very much...

 

[Elle3]

I meant to ask...  I'm suppose to do another 25% water change tomorrow, as per the instructions on his med. (antibiotic).  Do you think, I should put the new water, that I will use in a 5 gallon (cleaned/new) bucket, overnight???  I have read that this may help with the water...  Do you think this would be okay???

 

[star4]

For the time being feed him every other day until you can sort out this gas bubble problem. Yes each time you wc vac the bottom, this will remove any trapped gas that could be in there and also keep bad bacteria down to aid healing.
 
If you leave the bucket over night would the temperature match the tank? you may need a heater overnight, it depends on your ambient temperature at the moment, here it is quite warm at night.
 
If you do have detritus worms they are nothing to worry about, they wont harm the plec, in fact they are doing good clearing up excess food the more food available the more worms multiply they do not usually cause a problem but actually having a lot warns you of overfeeding.
 
I know its hard not to worry, but plecs are tough and you are doing everything you can

 

[Elle3]

Okay... Thank you, Star....I actually have an extra water heater, so I can put that in the bucket...I'll figure out something so as not to melt it...the temp. here is cool in the evenings, it would never get up to 72* -74*.  I didn't even think of the water temp. soo...happy you brought it to my attention. 
 
Also, I won't feed him this evening, as I fed him last night, that's if he even ate   I didn't see him on the cucumber, at all, but he may have while I slept.
 
I'll let you know tomorrow, if I have those worms or not, when I do the water change, also, I'll continue vaccing the gravel, as well.
 
Thank you...soo..much, once again..

 

[star4]

Ok, if there is anything else I can help with just shout and I will try my best

 

[Elle3]

Morning Star,
 
I just hooked up the heater into the 5 gallon bucket of water...I won't be doing the water change until it hits the correct temp, this afternoon.  Also, I did the finger test, there are fewer bubbles than there were yesterday.
 
He seems okay, laying at the bottom of the tank, right were I put his cucumber or other food.  I feel guilty--like he's saying, "Hey, you for got to feed me..."    I know this is for the better though and he isn't starving.
 
Also, from what I could see, as he isn't on the side of the tank...the bubble on his gill, seems much smaller.  Yesterday, is was completely filled with blood and about the size of a pea.  This morning, it looks to be half the size and I can't really see if there is blood within it... I'll let you know if and when I can get a better look--if he goes to the side of the tank.
 
I'm praying that we got this in time and that he will be okay.  I haven't a clue, as to WHY or HOW this happened, over 13 years I've had him and I have NEVER had this problem.  Do you think it could be from all the water changes, because of the med.--ever 2 days, basically 4 changes within 12 days??? 
 
I will let you know how the water change goes, when it's completed and if there are still these bubbles in there...
 
Thank you, once again...I appreaciate all your help...you are a "Godsend"....