Freeze Dried food for Bettas

Barry Grayson

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Freeze dried worms, daphnia etc are popular nutritional alternatives to pellets for Bettas. However, some members of this forum have spoken out vigorously against the feeding of freeze dried food.
Can anyone please explain the basis for opposing the use of these food sources ?


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The Lumpfish Guy

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I have no objections to freeze dried foods, if the fish will eat them.

In my opinion the most important thing is providing a range of foods which provide all the required nutrients for the fish.
Another factor is ease, Live foods obviously require some work to create ( or cost to buy) whereas frozen foods are easier to store and last longer, and freeze dried and pelleted foods even longer still. I tend to keep some pellets, some frozen food and occasionally buy live food.
 

NickAu

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Just make sure you pre soak the food in a spoon full of tank water for about 15 minutes before feeding.
 
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Barry Grayson

Barry Grayson

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Just make sure you pre soak the food in a spoon full of tank water for about 15 minutes before feeding.
Thanks Nick, but could you explain why ?



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NickAu

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If the food is not rehydrated and the fish eats it the stuff will swell up in the fishes belly.

I also pre soak pellets for the same reason.
 

Byron

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Freeze dried foods are not good, and I will never use them. The main reason is that they will soak up a considerable volume of water and inside the fish this can cause serious issues like bloating. Flake foods do not have this problem to such an extent as freeze-dried. But having said that, some maintain pellet foods are better yet in this regard. I have been using two types of flake foods for years, along with one pellet, alternating.

Frozen foods are OK for treats but are less nutritional than the good quality flake and pellet foods. I feed frozen daphnia and frozen bloodworms once a week (a couple hours after the water changes). The other days they get the flake/pellet foods, with one day as a fast with no feeding.

Good qualiity flake foods such as the Omega One brand and the New Life Spectrum brand are frankly the most nutritious and healthy foods for most of our fish. There are no "additives" like cereals in these, and they are made from whole fish, etc, not "stuff."
 

NickAu

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Frozen foods are OK for treats but are less nutritional than the good quality flake and pellet foods.
The frozen food industry ( for people and animals ) strongly disagrees with you.

Freezing does destroy a negligible amount of vitamins,
 

Byron

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The frozen food industry ( for people and animals ) strongly disagrees with you.

Freezing does destroy a negligible amount of vitamins,
Talking about fish foods only here. And you have to be very careful trusting anything the manufacturer may tell you, their business is selling their product.

Anyway, just compare the labels...frozen fish food is significantly low in nutrition compared to quality flake foods. The late Jack Wattley, an unquestioned authority on breeding discus, frequently wrote that quality prepared foods like flake and pellet were without question the highest nutrition for discus over frozen, live and anything else.
 

The Lumpfish Guy

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Good qualiity flake foods such as the Omega One brand and the New Life Spectrum brand are frankly the most nutritious and healthy foods for most of our fish. There are no "additives" like cereals in these, and they are made from whole fish, etc, not "stuff."
Many fish nutritionists would disagree with you on this point.
1) that is a hugely broad statement, which encompass a wide range of fish
2) we really have no idea what nutritional requirements are for most species in any reasonable depth (Atlantic Salmon are possibly the most widely research fish and we still are working out what all nutritional components do)
3) Fish require some form of carbohydrates in their diet ( fish dependant )
4) The 3rd ingredient in Omega one brand "super colour flakes" BTW is wheat flour and 4 out of the top 10 are "cereals"
5) These ingredients usually provide nutritional components, improve the performance (float/sink, break quickly/ act as a binding agent), provide attractants for the fish and protect the other ingredients during processing.
6) A lot of time the inclusion rate of these ingredients is very small anyway
7) they improve the sustainability of the feed by reducing the need for fishmeal ( not taking fish or krill from the ocean)

I suggest you read up on the role of non fish meal products in diets, I have put a few review papers below:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0044848694903638 ( Utilisation of Dietry Carbohydrates)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2095.2004.00327.x (carbohydrates in fish nutrition)

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/08/31/0905235106.short (feeding Aquaculture in an era of finite resorces)

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/87559129009540876?journalCode=lfri20 (Fish nutrition feeds and feeding focusing on Atlantic Salmon)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0044848689904638 (The interaction of vitamins, minerals and diet composition in the diet of fish)

Nutrient requirements of ornamental fish -- https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...amental-fish/ECEA3F4D5546D81F56899EAC8B4245E1
 

Byron

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I read the abstracts and see nothing there to counter my post. New Life Spectrum and Omega One have developed what can be regarded as highly nutritional foods for aquarium fish. They do not contain "fillers," though the Colour Flake may I have never used it, I use the Kelp Flake and Veggie Rounds. I see no reason to deviate from the advice of Neale Monks, Jack Wattley and similar. None of this alters the initial issue that freeze dried foods are not as good.
 

NickAu

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Since we are talking about Bettas,

This is the ingredient list for Northfin Betta bits
Kelp, Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, High Omega-3 (DHA) Herring Meal, Whole Sardine Meal, Wheat Flour, Spirulina, Garlic, Astaxanthin (Haematococcus Algae), Calcium Montmorillonite Clay, Vitamin A Acetate, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphospate (Source of Vitamin C), D-Activated Animal-Sterol (D3), DL Alphatocopherol (E), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Thiamine, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Selenium, Zinc, Rosemary Extract.

Here's a question.
When did Bettas a fresh water fish from Asia evolve to eat things like Antarctic Krill or rosemary extract for example .

PS
The other day I saw a post with some product that contained Goji berry juice.
 

Byron

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When did Bettas a fresh water fish from Asia evolve to eat things like Antarctic Krill for example.
This is a sensible question. But the value in the food is what it contains, and if the fish can benefit from that substance the source is immaterial. Humans frequently take vitamin and mineral supplements to ensure they are getting everything they need, some of which may be minimal or absent in their preferred foods, or may be in foods a person does not like to eat or cannot eat. Getting the beneficial nutrient from some other source is recommended. Same holds for prepared fish foods.
 

NickAu

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Humans frequently take vitamin and mineral supplements
Yes they do, and science has proven that in most cases all that happens is they end up with expensive urine. The only way to tell if person is vitamin deficient is by doing blood tests then taking the vitamin you need at the correct dose, Just going to the pharmacy and buying an over the counter vitamin is a waste of money.
 

The Lumpfish Guy

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I read the abstracts and see nothing there to counter my post.
Reading the abstract of a review paper is like going to see a film and just watching the trailers and leaving.

I see no reason to deviate from the advice of Neale Monks, Jack Wattley and similar.
I do, blindly following what someone else is doing and saying is not a solution. Do your own reading keep learning, you'll be surprised. take advice yes of course, but questioning what others say isn't a bad thing.
 
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Barry Grayson

Barry Grayson

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This discussion of nutrition and freeze dried, pellets and flakes has been terrific. Glad to be a “fly on the wall” listening to every word. Learned a lot ! Thanks so much



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