Four Panda Cories Dead

[Valerie Adams]

Alright, please bear with me as this is long and a lot of info. So I ordered 9 panda cories from Aquatic Arts and they (actually received 10) arrived on Friday. Upon arrival, two were dead (or so I thought) but when I went to net them, the second started to move so in to the tank he went (I did a fast drip acclimation). I didn't have a QT tank because it's been getting ready for an unexpected betta so they went into my 29g. They didn't look too healthy, but any pandas I've seen lately haven't.

Last night, I noticed a fungus like stuff appear. I was going to start to treat the tank with Furan 2 and Kanaplex, but they aren't snail safe. And I need to get crushed coral to put into the new betta tank so that the snails can go in there while I'm treating the 29g (my tap pH is at 6.8 right now, and it's rough on the snails shells. The pH in the 29 is 7.2. I don't know how, don't ask). So I am going to the pet store to get that today and can treat later tonight. Here's what they looked like last night

So then this morning, I wake up to find FOUR of them dead!! Here's pictures of the dead ones

Tank parameters: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, nitrates are a little high at 40 but was holding off on a water change due to my tap pH being low and it would cause harm to the snails. 7.2 pH, 74F. I had 24 ember tetras, 1 mystery snail, 2 nerite snails, and 1 panda cory already in the tank, completely healthy for a month or so. Now of course, there are 5 baby cories plus the existing one left in the tank.

So any ideas on what could have happened? What should I do?

 

[Colin_T]

The fish have bruising and bacterial infections on their bodies, presumably from stabbing each other when in the bag. It happens a lot when they are packed with too many fish in each bag and they get jostled about and poke each other (accidentally) with their pectoral fins and it leaves wounds that turn septic.

The pictures of the fish in the tank show their fins are a bit tatty and covered in a cream coloured edge. That is excess mucous the fish are producing due to stress and probably poor water quality in the bag during shipping.

If you get Corydoras or other types of catfish, try to get them packed 2 or 3 per bag and no more than 5 per bag. Get them to double bag the fish and lay it on its side so there is more swimming room for them and they will be less likely to stab each other. It will cost a bit more to have them packed this way for shipping but is worth the extra money and will reduce the chance of the fish hurting each other in the bags.

Bigger catfish or rare catfish should be bagged individually.

The fish should also be fasted for 24 hours before shipping to reduce the amount of waste they produce in the bags, and if possible a small amount of Ammogon or any other ammonia absorbing granules can be added to help reduce the ammonia levels in the bag.

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Kanaplex and Furan 2 are anti-biotics that treat bacterial infections and don't do anything for fungus or excess mucous. They also wipe out filter bacteria so should be used in bare tanks. However, because the live fish in the tank doesn't appear to have a bacterial infection I would not use those anti-biotics.

Anti-biotics should be used as a last resort because most of them were designed for human use and improper use can lead to drug resistant bacteria that can kill people, birds, fish and other animals.

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You could contact the seller and inform them that 4 of the fish have died, say 2 were dead in the bag and the other 2 died over night. Send them pictures of the 4 fish and they might credit you for the DOAs (dead on arrival).

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At this stage I would just monitor them and make sure the tank water is perfect (o ammonia, 0 nitrite, less than 20ppm nitrate, pH around 7.0 (7.2 is fine). I would do a 50% water change tomorrow to reduce the nitrates and then just monitor them.

 

[Valerie Adams]

The fish have bruising and bacterial infections on their bodies, presumably from stabbing each other when in the bag. It happens a lot when they are packed with too many fish in each bag and they get jostled about and poke each other (accidentally) with their pectoral fins and it leaves wounds that turn septic.

The pictures of the fish in the tank show their fins are a bit tatty and covered in a cream coloured edge. That is excess mucous the fish are producing due to stress and probably poor water quality in the bag during shipping.

If you get Corydoras or other types of catfish, try to get them packed 2 or 3 per bag and no more than 5 per bag. Get them to double bag the fish and lay it on its side so there is more swimming room for them and they will be less likely to stab each other. It will cost a bit more to have them packed this way for shipping but is worth the extra money and will reduce the chance of the fish hurting each other in the bags.

Bigger catfish or rare catfish should be bagged individually.

The fish should also be fasted for 24 hours before shipping to reduce the amount of waste they produce in the bags, and if possible a small amount of Ammogon or any other ammonia absorbing granules can be added to help reduce the ammonia levels in the bag.

-----------------------
Kanaplex and Furan 2 are anti-biotics that treat bacterial infections and don't do anything for fungus or excess mucous. They also wipe out filter bacteria so should be used in bare tanks. However, because the live fish in the tank doesn't appear to have a bacterial infection I would not use those anti-biotics.

Anti-biotics should be used as a last resort because most of them were designed for human use and improper use can lead to drug resistant bacteria that can kill people, birds, fish and other animals.

-----------------------
You could contact the seller and inform them that 4 of the fish have died, say 2 were dead in the bag and the other 2 died over night. Send them pictures of the 4 fish and they might credit you for the DOAs (dead on arrival).

-----------------------
At this stage I would just monitor them and make sure the tank water is perfect (o ammonia, 0 nitrite, less than 20ppm nitrate, pH around 7.0 (7.2 is fine). I would do a 50% water change tomorrow to reduce the nitrates and then just monitor them.

The bruising wasn't there before this morning. All of the other pandas in the tank don't look like that. The two that I had taken pictures of in the tank are the ones that have passed.

They were packed like you had suggested, though they had them all in the same bag. It was a bit bigger than the typical bags and they are around an inch. And they were in transit for less than 24 hours.

I will admit, I hardly know anything about medications. But when I had gotten my first pandas, they had similar symptoms and got a fungus that I had treated with Kanaplex and Furan 2, it went away and I hadn't had any issues after.

I have contacted the seller, I did when I first got the fish and they offered 4 options on how to replace the first two. I did email them today about the other two dying as well.

 

[Cichlid4life]

The fish have bruising and bacterial infections on their bodies, presumably from stabbing each other when in the bag. It happens a lot when they are packed with too many fish in each bag and they get jostled about and poke each other (accidentally) with their pectoral fins and it leaves wounds that turn septic.

The pictures of the fish in the tank show their fins are a bit tatty and covered in a cream coloured edge. That is excess mucous the fish are producing due to stress and probably poor water quality in the bag during shipping.

If you get Corydoras or other types of catfish, try to get them packed 2 or 3 per bag and no more than 5 per bag. Get them to double bag the fish and lay it on its side so there is more swimming room for them and they will be less likely to stab each other. It will cost a bit more to have them packed this way for shipping but is worth the extra money and will reduce the chance of the fish hurting each other in the bags.

Bigger catfish or rare catfish should be bagged individually.

The fish should also be fasted for 24 hours before shipping to reduce the amount of waste they produce in the bags, and if possible a small amount of Ammogon or any other ammonia absorbing granules can be added to help reduce the ammonia levels in the bag.

-----------------------
Kanaplex and Furan 2 are anti-biotics that treat bacterial infections and don't do anything for fungus or excess mucous. They also wipe out filter bacteria so should be used in bare tanks. However, because the live fish in the tank doesn't appear to have a bacterial infection I would not use those anti-biotics.

Anti-biotics should be used as a last resort because most of them were designed for human use and improper use can lead to drug resistant bacteria that can kill people, birds, fish and other animals.

-----------------------
You could contact the seller and inform them that 4 of the fish have died, say 2 were dead in the bag and the other 2 died over night. Send them pictures of the 4 fish and they might credit you for the DOAs (dead on arrival).

-----------------------
At this stage I would just monitor them and make sure the tank water is perfect (o ammonia, 0 nitrite, less than 20ppm nitrate, pH around 7.0 (7.2 is fine). I would do a 50% water change tomorrow to reduce the nitrates and then just monitor them.

two things, treat any of the remaining with paragaurd, and i suspect finrot, not aggressive attacking behavior, as these are schooling catfish called corydoras, not cichlids called OB peacocks.

 

[Cichlid4life]

sorry to hear you lost your fish.

 

[Valerie Adams]

two things, treat any of the remaining with paragaurd, and i suspect finrot, not aggressive attacking behavior, as these are schooling catfish called corydoras, not cichlids called OB peacocks.

I think he just meant that with them all being packed in the same bag, they likely ran into each other a lot. Not that they are aggressive...

Why paraguard? I don't really know what that is lol

 

[Colin_T]

SeaChem Paraguard contains Malachite Green and Aldehydes and according to the SeaChem website it treats all sorts of things. However, Malachite Green is used to treat external protozoan infections like Whitespot, Costia, Trichodina, etc.
Aldehydes (like Formaldehyde) tend to pickle most things and in low doses kill bacteria and fungus.

Malachite Green is carcinogenic and not needed in this situation.
Aldehydes might help but a clean tank with good water, clean substrate and a clean filter will normally let the fish recover without the need to add chemicals.